SubJeff on 31/10/2013 at 07:17
Chade and jay, what are you on?
jay pettitt on 31/10/2013 at 09:09
High on life my friend.
jay pettitt on 31/10/2013 at 10:32
Quote Posted by "yxlplig"
We're nowhere close to bumping up against practical limitations and I don't understand why you think it's reasonable for a game coming out in 2014 to have less freedom of movement and interactivity than a game from 1998. You make these declarations that we shall accept Decision A, with no compelling reason as to why. What practical limitations are we coming up against?
Regarding limitations, This has already been discussed a few posts above yours (and thanks to Chade a few posts below too) but we're limited by the number or buttons you've got and a gamepad, how many fingers you have and sensibilities about trying to provide intuitive, ergonomic, memorable controls. You're
always going to have to accept compromises there.
We accept that games have limitations. It's part and parcel of gaming. Thief 1 didn't let me hide under beds or peek through keyholes and any number of other things it might have been nice to do. We accept that most games don't let you go rock climbing when confronted with a cliff, or tie knots. But you get on with playing using the systems that
are provided.
I'm arguing that many of the complaints have got hung up on red-herrings. Like the ability to lean left and right in the middle of a room. Sure, you can concoct and elaborate hypothetical scenario where that might be nice to do (just as hiding under beds, or going rock climbing might be nice to do) - but you know what - just go and shoot out that bloody torch with the systems the game does support. Use the cover mechanic. Wait for the guard to turn away. Move to a different vantage point. That's your gameplay. That's your freedom.
Regarding less freedom. I'm not arguing that you should accept a poorer game that restricts what you can do. For all we know, thanks to contextual controls, the system that T4 has will support a
larger palette of actions than T1 - T3 did.
And yes, I don't think all freedoms are equal. Some are more useful than others. And that might change according to the situation. So if Eidos have devised a system that prioritises the most useful actions according to context, then all power to them.
And I am arguing that you should accept restrictions to your freedom. Because that's part and parcel of gaming (and life). A game that had no restrictions to your movement would likely be an unplayable mess requiring an unwieldy number of buttons. It's impractical to have 500 blades on a Swiss Army Knife. You should accept restrictions to your freedoms in real life because we're mostly happier if we restrict people's freedom to bang other people over the head and take their stuff, or pollute the environment, or make residential buildings out of materials that readily catch fire.
Freedoms are over rated. More important is how we craft our compromises.
Starker on 31/10/2013 at 11:32
I don't see why I have to settle for less. I have tasted excellence and I do not want to put up with second rate stuff. I'm a fan of the way LGS did things, which sadly seems to be ahead of its time still, and I do not have to accept modern improvements with gimmicky features that are all flash and no substance and streamlining for the modern audience that takes away from what has been achieved. I'm not a modern gamer -- I have a working brain.
Quote Posted by Daniel Windfeld Schmidt
It took a while to learn the complex controls. Numbers 1,2,3,4 - There were different types of peeking: peeking forward, peeking sideways, peeking upside down. They had all these things that were very complex and it worked for the hardcore gamers, but a lot of people backed off early on because it was very difficult.
So our focus has been to say, ‘we want the same amount of challenge, but within the game and not within the inputs.' I don't personally have the patience to learn the super, super old games and all their fidelities and hard-learned lessons. I want it to be more streamlined.
Renault on 31/10/2013 at 14:25
I've never understood that quote. Thief is not a flight sim - does anyone really consider it's controls complex and/or cumbersome? It's not like you needed a KB overlay or anything. WASD, and the number buttons for weapons. Jump, lean, cycle inventory. This isn't really any different than other modern day games like Bioshock or CoD, is it?
DJ Riff on 31/10/2013 at 16:26
Quote Posted by Brethren
Thief is not a flight sim - does anyone really consider it's controls complex and/or cumbersome? It's not like you needed a KB overlay or anything. WASD, and the number buttons for weapons. Jump, lean, cycle inventory.
Ditto. Thief Gold is playable on keyboard, joystick, gamepad and any combination of them with a mouse. Metal Age and Deadly Shadows are a little more complicated for keyboard only setup because it requires more precise targeting, but everything else still stands.
Esme on 31/10/2013 at 17:18
I remapped most of my controls onto the numeric keypad, left hand for keyboard, right hand for mouse, after a while I didn't have to think about the controls I just did stuff
A bit like when I learned to ride my motorbike, I used to have to think about the controls, now I think of where I want to be in the traffic flow, the mechanics of achieving that aim became subconscious.
jay pettitt on 31/10/2013 at 20:22
I get it for Dark Project. The default keybinds are a bit quirky - WSXZC for movement or whatever it was. I'd imagine first impressions would be pretty negative (especially as changing the keybinds is buggy). But T2 was a bit more like your usual FPS controls and shouldn't phase anyone.
Generally Thief was pretty streamlined I thought.
ZylonBane on 1/11/2013 at 17:26
Quote Posted by Brethren
I've never understood that quote.
It's really easy to understand-- Daniel Windfeld Schmidt is a nitwit.
Renzatic on 1/11/2013 at 18:39
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Note eye shadow ;)
The freejumping Garrett example in the topmost picture shouldn't have any eyeshadow on, you STUPID DAMN MOUTHBREATHING F***WIT BASTARD! GAWWW! :mad:
edit: I'M SO MAD AT YOU! :mad:
