Renault on 30/10/2013 at 15:48
Quote Posted by NuEffect
Do you think they have time to trawl through all the dross to get to the gold?
What's with you? I don't think anyone here has been irrational or frothing at the mouth in recent memory, with the exception of the usual blather from GMD and Vae. And jtr7 has flown the coop. Most discussion here has been pretty good.
You're going to force me to lump you in with Tomi, Beleg, and SneakyJack as over-reactionaries. And that new Godzilla guy too.
SubJeff on 30/10/2013 at 15:53
Quote Posted by R Soul
They called it Thief, with Garrett, the City etc so they could say this game is not a copy of Assassins Creed.
Quote Posted by NuEffect
It's nothing like AC.
Quote Posted by Shinrazero
You're right, in AC you can jump when you want to. :ebil:
The first thing just shouldn't have been said. It's wrong, it's old. I shouldn't need to reply to this.
THEN I get another so-tired-I'm-surprised-you're-alive "joke".
This is endless. Every twit lazily rolls this stuff out again and again. It wasn't true or funny the first time, now it's so, so crushingly dull.
Esme on 30/10/2013 at 15:55
and now I'm a twit
Renault on 30/10/2013 at 16:00
Man if that shit is bothering you, you are super sensitive dude. Maybe a break is in order.
SubJeff on 30/10/2013 at 16:01
Quote Posted by Esme
and now I'm a twit
Send that skin to the lab. It's so thin it must be have some interesting physiochemical properties.
I wasn't talking about, or referring to you, at all in any way.
Brethren, when did you last see me post? I rarely come here any more and when I do...
Starker on 30/10/2013 at 16:03
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Look, NuGarrett performs (or did in an early build) different kinds of leap depending on the context of the environment about him.
It's not a civil liberties issue. It's not (obviously) terrible design. It doesn't (obviously) take control away from the player any more than it gives NuGarrett & the player a greater range of movements given the confines of only having a handful of fingers - half of which should be clutching a mouse.
It's not a big deal.
Unless you want to pogo. Which obviously you don't.
It wasn't ridicule. It was putting a perceived problem into perspective, perhaps clumsily.
How is jumping not an issue of player freedom if you can only jump when you need to (as decided by EM) and not when you want to? The idea that you would only use it to bunnyhop is beyond ridiculous. How about wanting to see beyond level geometry or needing to get over a noisy surface?
jay pettitt on 30/10/2013 at 17:01
Because you're only ever going to get a restricted, compromised, crude approximation of movement in video games. That's the nature of keyboards and game-pads. Your freedoms are restricted. The question is, why this particular freedom - the freedom to jump up and down in the middle of a room, is all of a sudden so deal breakingly important. Of all the compromises you have to accept, why isn't this one of them.
It's not 'as decided by EM' - they've just designed a system. You do all the things you want to do - like navigate and explore - using the system provided.
Why could I only stand and crouch in the Looking Glass era games? Why not lie on the floor and hide under beds? Oh no my freedom is curtailed! Why can't I skinny up drain pipes? Or shimmy along thin ledges? Or open all the windows? Or do all the other things the game's systems don't support. Why aren't we screaming blue murder at all these restrictions to our precious freedoms? Or shimmy along thin ledges? Or open all the windows? Or do all the other things the game's systems don't support. Why aren't we screaming blue murder at all these restrictions to our precious freedoms?
--edit--
Let's take your example of jumping to see over something. Grab a pen, paper a protractor, calculator and your old geometry text book.
You're citing an example where something high and a distance away from you (hence a swoop rather than a jump) is blocking your view. Like a fence or something.
Let's say NuGarrett is 6 foot tall (his eyes are on the top of his head in this example) and can jump 1 foot. The fence is 6'6" tall and 6 feet away.
Question: for a fleeting moment at the peak of his jump, how much more stuff can Garrett see on the far side of the fence.
Answer: Almost nothing.
Of course, using the system EM describe, we can still go up to the fence, jump vertically (rather than do a horizontal swoop/leap) and get the full advantage of jumping near something that might reveal a lot more than using a jump to see over something 6 feet away. Hooray for acute angles.
Plus we don't really now how the peek (and other) mechanics work yet. I might be that the systems they do provide for peaking over, under and around things are actually really useful and feel great.
Starker on 30/10/2013 at 17:36
Nobody argues that the movement has to be as realistic to real life as possible. Yes, it is always an approximation, or more accurately it is an independent system with rules and constraints. However, the new one seems decidedly more restrictive, as it limits player movement and player agency more. This is what people have been saying, not "Why can't I jump like I can in real life and many other games?".
Edit: The fence example is overly simplistic. I have often found jumping useful in Thief when I wanted to look at an object from different angles, to look down wells, etc... Now maybe EM will provide tools to do all that, but they have not shown it so far. I can only work with what I know.
Edit 2: From what we know, peek is contextual too -- you have to be near a wall to do it.
SubJeff on 30/10/2013 at 17:56
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Let's take your example of jumping to see over something. Grab a pen, paper a protractor, calculator and your old geometry text book.
You're citing an example where something high and a distance away from you (hence a swoop rather than a jump) is blocking your view. Like a fence or something.
Let's say NuGarrett is 6 foot tall (his eyes are on the top of his head in this example) and can jump 1 foot. The fence is 6'6" tall and 6 feet away.
Question: for a fleeting moment at the peak of his jump, how much more stuff can Garrett see on the far side of the fence.
Answer: Almost nothing.
Are you really this thick?
Darkness_Falls on 30/10/2013 at 18:00
Quote Posted by Starker
Edit 2: From what we know, peek is contextual too -- you have to be near a wall to do it.
Yep. Near a wall or crate type object, it seems. And the videos show that before being able to lean, you first have to press a button to "Peek" when you're contextually within proper distance of the wall/object; and this engages a Peek mode. Engaging Peek gets Garrett closer to the wall/object where he presses his hands up to the wall/object (and it looks like it locks your feet in place to some extent), and only then can you lean left and right.
