No XP in Thief - TTLG Forums

jtbalogh on 19/10/2013 at 06:19

Quote:

There are for instance square-shaped grates which indicate a "mantleable" wall.
...
failing to communicate to the player the boundaries of their capabilities in interacting with their environment

Odd. The Q&A specifically described shaped geometry of the environment as the communication, and would not be arbitrary placement of textures, hints and hotspots as communication. Failure is not that they forgot to put something on the ground to tell us. Doesn't matter if a dynamic obstacle. Doesn't matter which textured surface. The intent was the shape of the geometry itself automatically communicating the location of a ledge or flat surface.

-- Did the Q&A lie or break the game -- if examples discussed in this thread are contrary to the seminar?
(http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Master-Thief-Movement?theme=thief#blogs/Master-Thief-Movement)

Failing to communicate boundaries can be worse (a hidden rail). However, having the need for arbitrary communication to compensate (a visual rail - textured graphic, blue hotspot, or white text popup) is part of the original argument since the beginning of the contextual discussion. Both are still handholding, which is why the Q&A tried to quell those concerns.

bedwine on 23/10/2013 at 23:02

I noticed Amazon.com is pre selling "Thief" for a February 24th release so I watched the Thief trailer. It looks good but will it be a extension of "Thief 2" or just another first person shooter with RPG that is typical with just about every new game release today? The Thief genre is unique. There isn't another game like it or remotely close to it. It has a quality that appears undefined. Thinking about it and problems it will have in todays audience.

Experience Points. Thief 1 spent the first mission training the user what was expected to succeed in playing the game. 15 years later I can play a fresh Fan Mission and still refine my skills within the game. XP has nothing to do with it. In the voice of Al Pachino "We don't need no stinkin experience points". Our real life experience with playing the game is our "RPG". This has never been done with any other game. Never! I didn't realize I could knock out a burrick until I was 8 years into playing. It never occurred to me and it never came up in message boards that I noticed. There are other things too. FM makers have the ability to strengthen AI ability and various other things to make the player make minor adjustments in their gameplay. It is always fresh. An XP type system destroys this aspect of gameplay. The best way to describe what "THIEF" is that it is a "FIRST PERSON STRATEGY GAME". The player walks and sneaks about analyzing his situation. "Watch the guards route pattern before crossing that corridor." "Plan my way up to that balcony before I strike." The entire game is what the "first person shooter is not" Exploring examining and thinking a strategy to succeed where the XP would be useless.

If we are lucky that is what the new "THIEF" will be. If it is close to a the original "Thief 1 and Thief 2". it will be a rave of a younger generation that are probably desperate for something different.

Esme on 24/10/2013 at 11:02

It's going to be a reboot and not a continuation from The Metal Age.

Currently from what I've seen, and I may be totally wrong on this, it looks like a cinematic nudge along movie, small sections of actual game seamlessly linked with movie like segments to tell the narrative, the free form exploration aspects seem to have gone, yes there are rope arrows but these only work on preset attachment points, you can still die of stupidity but generally you can only do what the designer intended, movement is contextual, and the hundred and one other negatives covered endlessly in this forum.

Positive points, XP seem to be being removed and visually it looks amazing.

Personally I'm not finding it that appealing, certainly not to the point where I'm going to rush out and buy it, I'll wait for good reviews of the actual game from people I trust on here before I'll buy it.

I'm sure I mentioned knocking out a Burrick once, you can also knock out frogbeasts, though I was disappointed to find you couldn't pick them up and use them as grenades (hint to FM designers :ebil: they are damn difficult to KO you ought to get a reward).

Jason Moyer on 24/10/2013 at 11:16

Quote Posted by Esme

It's going to be a reboot and not a continuation from The Metal Age.

We already had a continuation from the Metal Age.

Esme on 24/10/2013 at 11:36

Quote Posted by bedwine

I was responding to this @Jason Moyer

kora on 27/10/2013 at 10:11

So it's a re imaging of what exactly? TDP or a continuation from the perplexed minds behind EM after the events of DS?

Shinrazero on 27/10/2013 at 10:11

Laissez-faire

jtbalogh on 28/10/2013 at 06:39

A re-imagining of Garrett as if TDP, TMA, and TDS should not have existed, and born by a different mother who infused him with different emo traits. A coincedence that fate has him work in the "supposedly" same City Hub.

SubJeff on 28/10/2013 at 10:18

Why is everyone so butthurt by it?

Did you all feel so butthurt when Nolan made Batman Begins because of the Michael Keaton Batman?

And that's an example of how a reboot can be done well. I'm not saying this is going to be the equivalent but people seem to get really sore over the fact that it's a reboot.

Esme on 28/10/2013 at 12:31

Not exactly butthurt here, more disappointed that after 4-5 years of development work, with significant input from the fans in the early stages which was apparently ignored, then in my opinion, apart from the graphics, what I'm seeing is not as good as the original nearly 15 year old games.

If I don't think it's as good, I'm not buying it.

Some reboots are good, some aren't, my current thinking is that this reboot isn't.

That may change by the time it's released but I'm not holding my breath.