No XP in Thief - TTLG Forums

Mofleaker on 13/10/2013 at 15:29

(http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/20329/20131012/thief-4-xbox-one-ps4-release-date.htm)

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Another aspect of the gameplay demo that we were instructed to ignore was the XP counter. There will be no XP in Thief 4. None, Zero. I asked the panel about conveying a sense of advancement in the game, of "getting better" and was told about two things: loot and player skill.

I'm glad EM saw the light and trashed their trashy XP trash system, so there's one glimmer of uniqueness at least.

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Garret's focus seemed to be highlighting every clue, and a "chatty Garrett" talked the player through challenging tasks. The Q and A allowed the Thief 4 panelists to explain things a little bit.

"That was for journalists," Schmidt explained...

"Chatty Garrett" is probably the least of the voice over's problems. The story isn't even close to thief at all, I'm not sure what they were thinking reboot or no.

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"The melee systems is, on purpose, not very good," said Schmidt. Immediately realizing this phrasing might be a PR no-no he explained that it's a simple system and not a ton of fun. The aim is to discourage a blood and guts playstyle because it is the antithesis of what Thief as a game, and Garrett as a character, stands for.

Overall the gameplay seems to be shaping up to 'Thief Lite' rather than anything that actually expands upon the older games (but hey, thief lite is better than what we usually get right?)

Things are looking up, EM... Maybe we could chat about this "contextual jumping" and "Romano Orzari" stuff?

Renault on 13/10/2013 at 15:57

Seems weird that they would change something like this (the XP system) only 4 months from release - there would definitely be game balance issues and a whole lot of testing to do. And the article is a little confusing, with Daniel Windfeldt Schmidt saying "that was for journalists.' What is he referring to - Garrett's chattiness or the hand holding or both? Funny that they've never mentioned it until now, having been through E3 and multiple demos since.

And I really don't like the part about Garrett being a "connoisseur" of fine things, and dressing up his apartment with shiny stuff and bling bling. That's very anti-Garrett, at least to date.

Also interesting how combat was so prominently featured before, especially using Focus, and now it's suddenly a not so good system.

Seems EM is about facing on some of these decisions because they're finally realizing they aren't popular.

MoroseTroll on 13/10/2013 at 16:17

Holy sh1t! Did they really choose to not use XP system? Well, it's a step in the right direction, I should say.
Maybe it's not too late (https://www.change.org/petitions/eidos-montreal-square-enix-bring-back-stephen-russell-for-thief-4#) to change Romano Orzari to Stephen Russell? Come on guys, it's just 5355 signs, so maybe EM will change its mind if we get 10000?

LoucMachine on 13/10/2013 at 16:26

Well, I see this as good news :D

Brethren , I understand you point about the "connoisseur" thing, the lore has been changed alot...unfortunately, but I feel this particular point is not worth fighting for.

I still feel we should approach this news as positive and encourage EM to continue in this way, instead of going for more flames... because in general it announce a step foward and if we flame too much, they will think we are impossible to satisfy and stop listening to us.

My 2 cents

Renault on 13/10/2013 at 16:45

No, agreed 100%. Ditching the XP system is a huge step, and getting rid of the overly chatty Garrett and/or hand holdy on-screen prompts would be big too. I give the devs big time credit for realizing this stuff was bad and removing it this late in the process.

If we have to deal with cutscenes of Garrett polishing his trophies, well that's not so bad in the grand scheme of things.

Mofleaker on 13/10/2013 at 16:45

More news confirming no XP and some other interesting tidbits: (http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/10/12/nycc-2013-story-and-gameplay-mechanics-revealed-in-the-thief-panel/)

Notable points:

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Natural ventilation gives Garrett more options on infiltration. He can also look through keyholes and cracks in walls for information.

Uh oh. Hopefully not a return of the Alternate Path Stealth Shafts from Human Revolution.

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The Perception System is a very interesting beast. The detection systems that guards use actually comes from the eyes, rather than the torso like most games. They can also use peripheral vision to track movement and can actually catch Garrett this way. Players will know when they were spotted when an enemy makes eye contact.

Haha, good to see they're still toting their detection system's amazing innovations despite the fact they've been outdated for years.

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Extending from that, the Sensory System (aka the Light Gem) checks things in each area such as guard positions, stances, sounds, etc. in order to determine your vulnerability. A flash of light in each new area indicates Garrett's transitioning into a new zone and therefore into new danger.

Whoa whoa. Transitioning into a new zone? HMMM

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While Garrett will narrate clues to himself but the amount of talking he does depends on the difficulty setting.

Hell yes. Now all we need are decent voice overs. FIRST I STOLE TO SURVIVE...

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The sense of progression comes from slowly mastering all the intricate controls in the game. Gathering loot plays another small part.

The controls hardly seem intricate, but then again I haven't played the game. Good luck doing that with contextual jumping.

Renault on 13/10/2013 at 17:15

Another article on Garrett's chattiness, sounds like they're still working on it:

(http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/13/4831760/thief-panel-how-garrulous-should-garrett-be-nycc-2013)

There's also this article, talks about their impressions of the game during the NY Comic Con:

(http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/10/4823786/thief-dev-says-theyre-past-development-woes)

(make sure to read the Editor's Note at the bottom, kind of funny).

One thought here - they've got a lot of work to do, with only 4 months left. Sounds like the game crashed repeatedly, and besides Garrett's comments, they've got to figure out and tweak contextual prompts and some of the AI, among other things. You might think the game was destined to be delayed, but...

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How locked in to the game's ship date is Square?
"We're pretty locked, "Khoury said. "We're locked."

Antero90 on 13/10/2013 at 17:18

Long I time I have not posted in TLLG, but I feel I should comment on this.

XP system really had no place in any Thief game (reboot or not), it's not a game of scores and I have yet to see a game with scoreboards that are not hacked. (tho it would be funny to see someone trying to explain how he got 99 Ko's on a single mission)

It's taking it's time, but EM is realizing that they need to take serious action if they want the thief community to back their game.

There was not suposed to be a lightgem, there is one now, there was a feeling that Thief was more of a generic FPS with an option to stealth, EM has been showing the oposite now.

It's not a bad thing to admit you are wrong, dropping stuff that is not working is always a good thing, sometimes you need to back a bit to go foward, just don't fall into the trap of "we made it, we know what is good or not, gtfo".

Edit: As far as release, I had some very recent experiences of games being very buggy at release, I guess we can expect a day 1 patch, but hopefully no dificulty bug this time.

Starker on 13/10/2013 at 17:30

Well, that's two things off my gripe list and one of them was a big one.

R Soul on 13/10/2013 at 18:37

A good decision.