june gloom on 24/2/2008 at 08:31
god are you STILL going on about this?
we get it GUNZ R BAD AND IM SMARTR TAHN U yeah yeah whatever
SubJeff on 24/2/2008 at 14:49
I submit the following: your inability to see even an internet discussion to the end is indicative of your general outlook and behaviour which in turn is the reason you live in a place where you do not feel safe, and is also why you are unable to change your circumstances.
Good luck.
catbarf on 24/2/2008 at 15:42
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
This is enough demonstration of your failed logic for me to not bother discussing it with you. Guns are made to kill and are very good at causing serious injury. If you cannot divorce that from the idea of any other item being dangerous as a by-product of it's function what point is there discussing it with you people? Why do governments even bother with recording gun crime? Because those crimes have a unique element that is controllable to some extent. Graduate from uni, then come back and play.
Do you think that there is no situation in the world in which killing is justified? Self-defense or otherwise?
SubJeff on 24/2/2008 at 16:23
Yes. You should never kill anyone, even in self-defense.
That's exactly what I just said, or at least an approximation of it when using "special" logic.
more like brainbarf
catbarf on 24/2/2008 at 16:42
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Yes. You should never kill anyone, even in self-defense.
So you believe that people should be less well-armed, so that less muggers and thieves are killed, and leading to more innocents dying due to being unable to adequately protect themselves?
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
That's exactly what I just said, or at least an approximation of it when using "special" logic.
Please point out in the following paragraph where it says anything like 'You should never kill anyone, even in self-defense.':
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
This is enough demonstration of your failed logic for me to not bother discussing it with you. Guns are made to kill and are very good at causing serious injury. If you cannot divorce that from the idea of any other item being dangerous as a by-product of it's function what point is there discussing it with you people? Why do governments even bother with recording gun crime? Because those crimes have a unique element that is controllable to some extent. Graduate from uni, then come back and play.
Starrfall on 24/2/2008 at 16:48
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Why do governments even bother with recording gun crime? Because those crimes have a unique element that is controllable to some extent.
Governments record accidental deaths and every other kind of crime too so I don't think they're recording gun crime cause it's special.
fett on 24/2/2008 at 17:48
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Yes. You should never kill anyone, even in self-defense.
That's exactly what I just said, or at least an approximation of it when using "special" logic.
more like brainbarf
If you believe that then you're a fucking idiot. Are you serious? Someone comes at you with a knife and you're just going to stand there and not defend yourself? Sounds like you need a good ass-kicking so you'll understand what it feels like to be a helpless victim. Ever been mugged, threatened with physical violence, or assaulted? If not, you don't get to participate in this conversation anymore.
I've got no problem with people that are anti-gun, but if I'm reading this correctly you're anti-self defense? No wonder this conversation has gone down the shitter.
Kuuso on 24/2/2008 at 17:51
Quote Posted by fett
If you believe that then you're a fucking idiot. Are you serious? Someone comes at you with a knife and you're just going to stand there and not defend yourself? Sounds like you need a good ass-kicking so you'll understand what it feels like to be a helpless victim. Ever been mugged, threatened with physical violence, or assaulted? If not, you don't get to participate in this conversation anymore.
I've got no problem with people that are anti-gun, but if I'm reading this correctly you're anti-self defense? No wonder this conversation has gone down the shitter.
Well, I reckon he's more against killing even in self-defense, because there's other options than killing the person attacking you. You don't have to kill the attacker surely?
Personally, I feel that killing in self-defence would be the extreme option, the final one, when there's no other chance.
fett on 24/2/2008 at 18:08
In a scenario where the individual is going to kill you and keep on trying to kill you until you are dead dead dead - you would not in turn try to kill that individual?
I realize that those of you who hold this position are highly skilled in all manner of non-lethal ninja takedown methods, believe that pepper spray is a permanent deterrent, and that murderers NEVER get released on parole (thus allowing them to hunt you down and finish the job).
However, those of us living in the real world are not Batman, nor would we have the presence of mind when being brutally attacked to analyze all possible methods of resolving the problem in a non-violent manner. I know, we're lesser beings that should learn to discipline our minds for such situations.
Then again, I'm basically an evolved animal, yes? I have a flight or fight instinct, and when flight isn't possible, guess what kicks in?
I'm just curious. If someone is trying to kill you -really trying to kill you -what would your response be? Would you ask your attacker to pause while you call the police on your cell phone? Would you contact your lawyer? Would you ask them nicely to please stop? What would you do? Please enlighten the rest of us who tend toward unraveling and fighting for our lives in such a situation.
In the meantime, I'd HIGHLY advise getting into a situation where someone points a gun at you. It will change your world view very quickly because it's no longer academic at that point.
Kuuso on 24/2/2008 at 18:37
Quote Posted by fett
In a scenario where the individual is going to kill you and keep on trying to kill you until you are dead dead dead - you would not in turn try to kill that individual?
I rarely have hitmans after me.
Quote:
I realize that those of you who hold this position are highly skilled in all manner of non-lethal ninja takedown methods, believe that pepper spray is a permanent deterrent, and that murderers NEVER get released on parole (thus allowing them to hunt you down and finish the job).
However, those of us living in the real world are not Batman, nor would we have the presence of mind when being brutally attacked to analyze all possible methods of resolving the problem in a non-violent manner. I know, we're lesser beings that should learn to discipline our minds for such situations.
Then again, I'm basically an evolved animal, yes? I have a flight or fight instinct, and when flight isn't possible, guess what kicks in?
I'm just curious. If someone is trying to kill you -really trying to kill you -what would your response be? Would you ask your attacker to pause while you call the police on your cell phone? Would you contact your lawyer? Would you ask them nicely to please stop? What would you do? Please enlighten the rest of us who tend toward unraveling and fighting for our lives in such a situation.
In the meantime, I'd HIGHLY advise getting into a situation where someone points a gun at you. It will change your world view very quickly because it's no longer academic at that point.
As fun as your sarcasm is, it kind of deters you from your argument. Anyways, obviously I would fight back. If I was in a real life-threatening situation, I would use a knife or whatever (I wouldn't own a gun, so that's out of question) to defend myself, but I wouldn't try to kill the attacker with it. There's no point for the kill. I do understand that in a situation like that, you act fast and with minimal thinking, if it results to the death of the attacker, that is fine in my eyes, but the aim shouldn't be to kill him.
I guess this is turning into a more of a trust issue: Do you trust the police and the law system to handle the aftermath properly or not? I trust them to do their job. You Americans seem to have more doubts on this. You shouldn't kill a person just because you fear they might do harm to you in the future...
