a flower in hell on 20/2/2008 at 22:47
I find it hilarious that you guys will rabidly and vehemently defend video games against accusations that they cause violent behavior, but you're oh-so-very-quick to go all Jack Thompson on firearms.
And yes, it IS the same thing. A firearm is not a magical engine of death and destruction. It is not sentient. It does not compel the wielder to kill any more than a violent FPS game does.
Taking away the guns will not lower violent crime in the US. If anything, you just might see a second Civil War.
SubJeff on 20/2/2008 at 22:51
You're really grasping mopgoblin. Yes, people can make stuff but you do realise that you're suggesting that tighter gun laws = masses of homemade bombs and guns don't you?
Gun crime IS something that can be defined dethtoll. The ease with which people can cause large amounts of damage quickly is a major issue. There are people who may have stabbed or punched someone who have, because they had a gun, shot them instead. Even to wound it's just the awful injury. There are people that intend to threaten with a gun but use them when the situation escalates. Heck, the physical act of pulling the trigger is so easy compared to getting up in someone's face with fists, clubs or knives.
Quote Posted by a flower in hell
And yes, it IS the same thing. A firearm is not a magical engine of death and destruction. It is not sentient. It does not compel the wielder to kill any more than a violent FPS game does.
Taking away the guns will not lower violent crime in the US.
It is easy to use though. And no one suggested that violent crime would be lowered - just the number of shootings. Entirely different thing but very important from the critical injury per attack point of view.
a flower in hell on 20/2/2008 at 22:55
We're not arguing that. We're arguing that it's fucking retarded to punish innocent people for something they had absolutely no control over.
june gloom on 20/2/2008 at 22:59
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Gun crime IS something that can be defined dethtoll. The ease with which people can cause large amounts of damage quickly is a major issue.
And you can cause even more damage with a bomb, which of course is a pre-meditated act, and most uses of guns in violent crime are also premeditated. Your point?
Kuuso on 20/2/2008 at 23:02
I don't think anyone rational is going on about banning firearms more than restricting them. You must agree that it's awfully easy to get your hands on a gun, if you want to, which partly due to the laws concerned. As far as I know, the private sale of guns is kind of weird in some states. Because if you have a gun, you're not a gun dealer, and you'd like to sell it, you could just go to a gun show and give it to someone without being licensed to sell firearms and without knowing who you're selling it to.
Now that sounds extremely idiotic to me.
And there is a difference between violent video games and a gun. Whereas the violence in video games is still under debate and is only a small variable in killings (have you heard of a sane person killing someone just because of video games?), it's easy to see that pulling a trigger is rather tightly linked to the damage received by the victim.
a flower in hell on 20/2/2008 at 23:08
Yes but everyone is blaming the GUN. The gun can't make the decision to kill people, folks! It's a fucking piece of metal and plastic!
Seriously, the problem is the people behind the weapons. The gun can't commit murder. The gun doesn't know if it's good or evil, it doesn't know if it's going to murder someone. All it does is shoot a bullet when you pull the trigger. Just because some of you assholes are afraid of the thought of ugly, stinking, barbarian Americans and our HUGE ARSENALS OF DEATHRAY UBER GUNS is no excuse to come in here and shit on a very popular and respected hobby.
Seriously, you guys are pissing me the fuck off. It's really fucking easy to get on your soapbox and act like an elitist prick when it's something you don't care a thing about. I grew up with guns. I find them fascinating, from the science of their operation to the design of each individual weapon. I'm not afraid of them; they're just like a circular saw or a pneumatic wrench to me.
Goddamn it all I want to do is be able to go down to the range every weekend and blow shit up. I'm getting really fucking sick of being branded an evil bitch because of it.
heretic on 20/2/2008 at 23:09
Well the war on drugs has been such a rousing success, why not let the ATF boys loose in earnest and start one on firearms as well.
:rolleyes:
I own six firearms. My first, a .22, I've had since I was seven. I reload my own ammunition and practice regularly. I've exposed dozens of people to firearms who would not have had a chance to experience them otherwise. None of this has ever led to any crimes being commited.
a flower in hell on 20/2/2008 at 23:13
Quote Posted by heretic
Well the war on drugs has been such a rousing success, why not let the ATF boys loose in earnest and start one on firearms as well.
:rolleyes:
I own six firearms. My first, a .22, I've had since I was seven. I reload my own ammunition and practice regularly. I've exposed dozens of people to firearms who would not have had a chance to experience them otherwise. None of this has ever led to any crimes being commited.
Oooh. What do you have? ^^
Kuuso on 20/2/2008 at 23:16
Quote Posted by a flower in hell
Yes but everyone is blaming the GUN. The gun can't make the decision to kill people, folks! It's a fucking piece of metal and plastic!
The gun doesn't know if it's good or evil, it doesn't know if it's going to murder someone. All it does is shoot a bullet when you pull the trigger. Just because some of you assholes are afraid of the thought of ugly, stinking, barbarian Americans and our HUGE ARSENALS OF DEATHRAY UBER GUNS is no excuse to come in here and shit on a very popular and respected hobby.
Seriously, you guys are pissing me the fuck off. It's really fucking easy to get on your soapbox and act like an elitist prick when it's something you don't care a thing about. I grew up with guns. I find them fascinating, from the science of their operation to the design of each individual weapon.
Goddamn it all I want to do is be able to go down to the range every weekend and blow shit up. I'm getting really fucking sick of being branded an evil bitch because of it.
My father and uncle have hunted as far as I can remember and I've been grown up with guns as well. Yet again, nobody's saying they should be banned overally. For a purpose of a hobby or hunting, it's reasonable to get a license to get a gun.
Also, while the gun isn't sentient, it's still manifactured to cause damage. I think it is rather foolish to put them in the same line as other stuff just because of that. Or have you been ever harassed by a gang that used books as weapons?
june gloom on 20/2/2008 at 23:24
I do not own a gun, but I fully intend to purchase one in the next few years. It will likely not be a handgun, partly for aesthetic reasons. It will instead be a rifle (probably lever-action) or a shotgun.
Kuuso, your argument is flawed because just about anything can be used as a weapon. Guns today are indeed tools designed to kill; that said, there is a difference between someone having a gun to defend their property and someone having a gun to bust a cap in Tyrone's ass. Gun control proponents make no distinction between the two and it's insulting.
