Starker on 1/3/2018 at 10:02
Stephen Kick keeps communicating with the backers and he has promised to update us. He answered backer concerns on Discord just a couple days ago.
heywood on 1/3/2018 at 12:58
Quote Posted by voodoo47
there is a night and day difference between a wrapper and a full source port - hardware rendering, proper resolutions, engine fixes, modability and more. think DDFix vs NewDark.
the SS1 source release has been hinted for a while now, and (
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=8642.msg117808#msg117808) pretty much double-confirmed not long ago. looks like they will release two versions - the original unmodified source, and a fixed version they were working on, so there is a good chance we will have a (basic?) working (windows?) port right away.
We already have a working Windows version with most of what people would want in the original game e.g. widescreen support, mouse look, remappable key bindings, and bug fixes.
To go beyond that and provide support for modern resolutions, hardware rendering, 3D objects, and mods, you would basically be remaking the entire game in a new engine with all new art. Basically, doing what System Shock Remastered was supposed to do. Source code for the original game isn't going to be much of a help with that.
voodoo47 on 1/3/2018 at 21:54
uh, source code of the game is not going to help with creating a proper windows port? google gzdoom, eduke32, glrott, ecwolf etc.
heywood on 1/3/2018 at 23:41
What's wrong with the Windows version we already have? Have you played System Shock: Enhanced Edition? What more do you want out of it?
voodoo47 on 2/3/2018 at 00:22
are you seriously trying to tell me that you don't see a difference between a wrapper that just barely duct tapes things into working, and a proper source port that would make the renderer utilize your graphics card (having an accurate z-buffer would most likely get rid of all the texture wobblines, yes please), allow modern resolutions (no, the wrapper's max stable resolution of 1024*768 is not cutting it), make use of all the mouse buttons and other controllers, tweak the player physics so navigating the environment would not feel like pushing around a sack of rubber bands, improve the stability manyfold, allow to run natively on any operating system, future proof the game so it will keep running as new operating systems arrive, and many other things.
is this for real?
icemann on 2/3/2018 at 00:47
I can't believe what I'm hearing / reading. heywood doesn't want the source code to be released. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!.
This is why we don't get to have nice things.
Trance on 2/3/2018 at 00:56
Did he not say in his first post on the subject that he wouldn't mind if they released it? Not seeing a use for the source code does not make him resistant to the notion of releasing it.
Of course there's a world of potential in the source code, so I don't agree with him on that front either. I've seen what GZDoom can do to extend the Doom engine, so who knows what can be done for SS1's engine.
icemann on 2/3/2018 at 05:23
ZDoom you mean. GZDoom came later. ZDoom had already done 90% of the ground work by then.
Shadowcat on 2/3/2018 at 11:16
Quote Posted by heywood
To go beyond that [...] you would basically be remaking the entire game in a new engine with all new art. [...] Source code for the original game isn't going to be much of a help with that.
Do you know why there have been so many projects which aimed to remake SS/UU/etc but which never got a whole lot further than creating a new engine and enabling you to move around the original maps? It's because the hard part -- the
really hard part; the actual
game -- is not the graphics engine or the art, but all of the logic embodied within the original source code. The source code is where the game lives, and that is the most spectacularly difficult thing to recreate. The suggestion that the original source code would not help with creating a remake of the game is honestly about as far off the mark as it is possible to get.
There have, of course, also been successful attempts at enhancing and updating the games in various ways; but those successes are not an indication that the original source code is not useful but rather indicative of the truly exceptional talent of the people who created them. Access to the source code makes everything easier. Even if you personally can't see a use for it, be assured that a source code release is always a good thing, and to be encouraged.
Trance on 2/3/2018 at 12:24
Quote Posted by icemann
ZDoom you mean. GZDoom came later. ZDoom had already done 90% of the ground work by then.
Yes, and GZDoom went a whole lot further, and is currently the most impressive example of extending the Doom engine that I've found. Which is why I used that, and
not ZDoom. My choice was not an oversight.