Gryzemuis on 17/7/2016 at 20:07
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
He isn't saying we're "terrorist apologists", he is saying that we're apologists for the existence of religion....because without religion the world would be a much better place and no violence like this would ever happen.
No. SubJeff said: "you can't say that the attack is linked to IS (or Islam) because there is no proof yet". What I was saying was: this is typical behaviour of apologists. They start discussing details and technicalities. To distract the discussion and make people discuss different topics than the topic at hand (which is an IS attack on random French civilians). I don't like those distractions. And I don't think they are innocent.
What's next ? Telling us Bin Laden wasn't responsible for 9/11 ? He has never appeared for a court. TNobody ever presented official proof of his involvement. And he was never convicted. Shall we stop talking about the link between 9/11 and Bin Laden, Saudi Arabia, Al Qaida, Islam, etc ? Because that would technically be the correct thing to do.
FYI, the Nice attacker has supposedly sent an SMS asking someone else for more guns. Looks like he wasn't the lone wolf people suggested he was. Talk about jumping to conclusions.
And about religion.
Someone said: "you can't blame Islam for IS and its attacks. because if you do, you should also blame Christianity for the KKK". I answered: "yes, Christianity is also to be blamed for an awful lot of bad things that have happened in history".
And Manwe, you make it sound as if everything that happened in Western Europe over the past 40 years was one large conspiracy. That's ridiculous. First of all, to make such a long conspiracy work, you need the same people in charge for 40 years. And democracy makes sure that doesn't happen.
You should learn to apply (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) Hanlon's Razor.
bjack on 17/7/2016 at 20:18
Manwe, maybe this is due more to “leader ineptness", not intentional chaos induction? And then I hear Obama praise BLM and I wonder... Meanwhile, more cops gunned down in Baton Rouge. More BLM calling for the dissolution of the police. The real agenda of these radical groups is coming out. It’s not just about ISIS, BLM, the KKK, nasty hippies in your back yard pissing on your fence, or dope smoking kids on a Saturday night. It is the loss of respect for law. More importantly, the loss of the rule of law due to do moral relevancy. Inequitable application based upon “victim status”, as defined by whomever is in power. It is the loss of application of law equally, despite race, color, creed, or social status. For example, Hillary Clinton is a felon and she gets away with it, yet little gnomes that do far less go to prison. It pisses off a lot of people. Then the media, the President, shit... lots of people use us all as pawns in these debates for goals we do not know. Fun times.
Does it really matter if ISIS commands these idiots directly, or if they are simply inspired to commit these atrocities in the name of radical Islam? At this point, what difference does it make...
Still, your points are pretty spot on, Manwe. I think the intention of the creators of the problems were altruistic though. Stupid, but not calculated chaos inducing actions. I hope not to be wrong on that account.
bassoferrol on 17/7/2016 at 20:18
It´s happened again. Year 2016 but who cares.
And yet I'll have to apologize for being the wicked guy that doesn´t calibrate and understand how much love and tolerance these people and their culture are bringing to us. Oh, I'm missing so much so good!
They live in ghettos because we are the excluded, idiots! It has nothing to do with racial groups. We are infidels. Nothing worse for them than to be mixed with people who are atheists or of another religion.
Nothing really positive can come from Islam and you all know it.
Now to the boats : Bye bye bikinis, electric guitars and theatre plays.
And never forget:
YOU HAVE BEEN VISITED BY THE ISLAMIC TRUCK OF TOLERANCE
______________¶___
|religion of peace ||l “”|””\__,_
|______________|||__|__|__|]
(@)@)*********(@)(@)**(@)
van HellSing on 17/7/2016 at 21:30
You do realise that's exactly the attitude IS et consortes WANT you to develop, right? Be a dick toward muslims in general in hopes to radicalise them?
Vivian on 17/7/2016 at 22:52
You idiots finished wanking each other off yet?
Manwe on 17/7/2016 at 23:27
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
And Manwe, you make it sound as if everything that happened in Western Europe over the past 40 years was one large conspiracy. That's ridiculous. First of all, to make such a long conspiracy work, you need the same people in charge for 40 years. And democracy makes sure that doesn't happen.
No I make it sound as the truth, because it is. What you don't understand is that the same people have precisely been in charge for the last 40 years. They're not a shady group of individuals who act in secrecy, more like a successive number of people from the same background who happen to share the same ideology. Again this is not because of some shady conspiracy but simply because that's how the world works. Rich, powerful people breed and put their children in their place. It's called nepotism. Now the one thing that unites all these people is a deep hatred of the nation state. They absolutely abhor France, its values, its symbols and its people. At the same time they have a deep reverence, bordering on fanaticism, for the US.
Now maybe you don't trust me. So here (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRKiDKg2NnU) have a look for yourself. Emmanuelle Cosse current Minister of Housing in the French government : "The problem is the nation state, Europe will be better for everyone when we manage to dissolve the nation state". That would be considered an act of treason in any sane democracy. Nope, not in France. And trust me, she's not the only one to think that. She's just more vocal about it than the others cause she's from the green party. The dream of our ruling class is a federal Europe. But that means destroying the old nations first. How do you expect these people to care about a few hundred civilian casualties, when said casualties represent everything they hate?
How about Laurent Fabius our previous Minister of Foreign Affairs saying (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Fabius#2012-2016_Minister_for_Foreign_Affairs) "Al Nosra is doing a good job"? Is that a conspiracy as well?
How about the thinly veiled threats coming from our own Prime Minister who admits that he is "powerless against terrorist attacks", and who keeps repeating that "more attacks, more deaths will happen", and that "we have to prepare for it"? Is that a conspiracy? Or does he simply hate the people he is supposed to represent? How about when he explains that he's (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Bs3tF1jj0) "eternally attached to a foreign nation"? Is that a conspiracy? Or is that high treason?
How about our Flamby national who, after every attack, declares that he's going to intensify the bombings in Syria or wherever? Is that a conspiracy? Or maybe he's just incompetent and he doesn't know what he's doing? No don't underestimate these people. They know exactly what they are doing. They knew exactly what they were doing when they let massive numbers of immigrants into the country in the 80s and when they promoted a hatred of France among these populations, all the while promoting a hatred of immigrants among the indigenous population via the Front National (guess who was Prime Minister at the time, why if it wasn't Laurent Fabius!). They knew perfectly well it would tear the country apart. Just like they knew that destroying the most secular, and stable nations of the Middle East would have dire consequences in our own countries. They just didn't care.
There is something rotten in France, trust me. The people at the top don't give a shit about the people. To be fair the feeling is mutual, and they'll be lucky if they manage to finish their mandate alive and in one piece.
bassoferrol on 18/7/2016 at 02:17
What is IS? Do I own them something, or you?
Are they my tutors? Are they moderate or radical?
Do you give them some kind of authority or justification?
Are you scared? Time to shut my mouth.
Finished with this thread.
R.I.P. all the innocent
Nicker on 18/7/2016 at 02:34
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
What I was saying was: this is typical behaviour of apologists. They start discussing details and technicalities. To distract the discussion and make people discuss different topics than the topic at hand (which is an IS attack on random French civilians). I don't like those distractions. And I don't think they are innocent.
Looking for facts before drawing conclusions is typical behaviour for thoughtful folks. Are you threatened by thinking? Is this an existential emergency?
Projecting motives on others and straw-manning with a Bin Laden hypothetical, is far more distracting and controlling.
bjack on 18/7/2016 at 04:22
Quote Posted by Abysmal
No sides taken. I don't really care. Kill each other. I'll watch.
Out of all the quotes, I like yours the best so far... You sound like my wife. She's Irish. Hateful of oppressors. I'm Orange. The oppressor. A bit of Irish Rovers, yes?
Muzman on 18/7/2016 at 06:21
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
No. SubJeff said: "you can't say that the attack is linked to IS (or Islam) because there is no proof yet". What I was saying was: this is typical behaviour of apologists. They start discussing details and technicalities. To distract the discussion and make people discuss different topics than the topic at hand (which is an IS attack on random French civilians). I don't like those distractions. And I don't think they are innocent.
So what you're saying is, effectively, there's something pernicious, and probably suspicious, about accuracy, detail, nuance etc. How Enlightened of you.
Notably, most media outlets report that there's no obvious connection yet. They're not exactly shy about rounding every attack into being orchestrated by the Islamic terror group of the moment if they can. Maybe complexity is entering the narrative. It can only be for the better, I'd say.
