bjack on 15/7/2016 at 23:58

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No words yet? Come on. This Xenophobe wants to know if you support that truck driver running down people in Nice. Or those ass holes in November castrating people and putting their testicles in the victims mouths. How about the disembowelment? How about the knife rape? I grieve for those killed in Nice. It seems some of you side with the killers. Have a nice day.

Added on 07/15/16 (or 15/07/16 for those not in USA format). My second to last sentence above is harsh. I typed that with extreme passion. I am enraged by this senseless killing and was (and still am) angry that I did not see anything here at all about it. Why was it not here? Too early? Cannot talk about it? You seem to feel free to talk about shootings in the USA with are willing to condemn us all. Why not speak of things in your own back yard? Is it now illegal to do so? Are terrorists a protected class? Seems so, considering the French police covered up evidence that the hostages were decapitated, females carved up, and men castrated and their testicles place in their mouths. It's real people. That is the face of ISIS. And yet, I am a Xenophobe. Sorry, I would like to keep my balls and not have my wife's vagina cut into hamburger. Maybe you would, in the name of multiculturalism and peace.

EDIT: 07/16/16 - Posting while very emotionally drained from watching this Nice tragedy unfold, plus getting new information about the French cover up of the horrors ISIS did during the Paris attack in November was not a good idea at all. I lost pretty much all my cool and went nuclear, accusing people of not caring because of the silence. That was insensitive and childish. I apologize for that.

OK, here comes the but... I am pleased to see this conversation open up, even if it results in people calling me an idiot and whatnot. For those that do not consider ISIS a real serious threat, I hope you come out OK in the end. One of their strategies is “lone wolf” attacks. This was ISIS. As for November...

(http://heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-suppressed-news-of-gruesome-torture-at-bataclan-massacre/)

demagogue on 16/7/2016 at 00:42

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I side with the victims of cruel acts like this one, 85%+ of whom are Muslim, and even then disproportionately the refugee groups, as well as the minority of European victims.

As for why I'm not trumpeting it everywhere, honestly the Nice incidence seriously depressed me because I grieved for the senseless loss, but also for the terrorist losses in Baghdad and Balad Iraq this month, with over 300 and 100 deaths respectively. All three incidents had a soul numbing number of senseless deaths. All victims have the same right to life that was taken from them. They're all of equal value.

Don't use a tragedy to try to score points. Nobody reasonable is siding with mass murderers. What they did is a terrible crime in any country, and the police in any country rightfully have the job of getting them off the streets if they're planning murder.

Nicker on 16/7/2016 at 01:26

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Of course BJack, we are ignoring the subject out of cruelty, not compassion, because everybody not aligned with your ideology is a monster bereft of basic human decency. But you already have your finger on that pulse.

demagogue on 16/7/2016 at 02:24

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I think it's natural to be fed up and angry that these attacks keep occurring. And I think the direction to channel that anger is to the groups and institutions that are facilitating it.

Of course terrorist groups themselves like ISIS that put up YouTube videos. But also big players like the Saudi gov't which has been irresponsibly supportive of radical wahabiism and Iran for actively sending out rogue Shia militias.

And then there's the social background where half of the Middle East is balkanizing between Sunni & Shia, and sectarian hatred is radicalizing people. That's not an easy problem to solve; anyway no foreign power is going to solve it for them. The people of the region have to address it and internalize it themselves.

But the ones they're radicalizing, yeah, they're not religious. They couldn't be or the cognitive dissonance between radical and proper Islam would be too much. They're anti-modernization. They don't want to see liberal reforms like women's rights, and a radical group is a way to channel their frustration. And they lash out at anyone they perceive as "modern", Arab or European alike.

What can we do to solve the root problem? We've bombed the oil production of ISIS which was their financial source, and they're getting methodically rooted out of Iraq and Syria cities. The part that matters is that something is replaced that doesn't just lead to the next generation of radicals in 10 years. The fact Shia militias have been massacring Sunnis in the cities liberated from ISIS doesn't bode well.

I think as long as radical groups have a space to breed in, they'll sponser or inspire terrorism and it will hit us however hard we try to seal ourselves from it. So the end goal is to get functioning states that respect minority rights in these countries to stop the cycle of reprisals and sectarian hatred. I don't think the West can impose it, but I don't think we can just ignore it and think building walls is going to magically make us immune either. The radicals are dragging us into the Middle East chaos so we're in it together with the moderates there, and we need to support their efforts to build peace and stable institutions.

bjack on 16/7/2016 at 05:16

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Nicker, I cannot speak for you at all. But silence means approval... (REM) No, I do not have my finger on the pulse, but I think I have a far better sense than the ostrich viewpoint of many. No, not all Islamic followers are evil. But there is a significant number of very nasty evil fuckers ready to put your head on a stake. Sound fun? It is real. Live with it. It is real and it is coming to a town near you, due to idiots that allowed them to infiltrate everywhere without vetting. Whatever. Some here will not get this at all. Or maybe you will. My hope is ALL of you are safe and none are harmed. Despite the differences in politics and ideals, that is a common goal we can all share.