Next up...holy water arrows. - by New Horizon
New Horizon on 15/9/2005 at 18:33
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Don't freak out man. I was just giving examples of where T3 is better than T1 and 2, I never said you changed it.
:laff: Ha, I'm not freaking out. It's just that the examples didn't make any sense. I didn't think I went too far out on a limb with anything I've done so far to warrant those kinds of comparisons.
I even said that both could be made available.
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Not sure how to make that time out yet but it may work. This would also be good for FM authors who want to include a straight holy water arrow later on that is separate from the water arrow.
ascottk on 15/9/2005 at 18:33
Quote Posted by New Horizon
For the record, I think what I've been doing is definately an improvement over the T3 that was released. I also really don't think the original handling of Holy water arrows was rubbish.
I totally agree. Also the holy water & oil flasks look more like lava lamps. Besides the Minimalist Project is New Horizon's project. If you don't like then make your own mod ;) NH is using tools & resources that are easy to come by if you have the bandwidth. I was considering making my own mod as well (don't know what it'll be but MP is the inspiration).
New Horizon on 15/9/2005 at 18:43
I should correct my statement above to read...
Quote:
For the record, I think what
we've been doing is definately an improvement over the T3 that was released. I also really don't think the original handling of Holy water arrows was rubbish.
I certainly don't deserve to take credit for the great work that has been done here. I've contributed like everyone else but I'm just a small piece of the puzzle.
New Horizon on 15/9/2005 at 19:16
Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places but does anyone know where to set the stimulus settings for an arrow? Maybe I'm just not understanding how they work. Hmmm.
ascottk on 15/9/2005 at 19:27
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places but does anyone know where to set the stimulus settings for an arrow? Maybe I'm just not understanding how they work. Hmmm.
There's a stimulus setting for the BroadheadArrowForAIs (Garrett's BroadheadArrow does an inventory switch to the AI one). That's the only stimulus setting I see for any of the arrows. Aha! It's under FX>StimFX>WaterArrowStimExplosion
New Horizon on 15/9/2005 at 19:41
Quote Posted by ascottk
There's a stimulus setting for the BroadheadArrowForAIs (Garrett's BroadheadArrow does an inventory switch to the AI one). That's the only stimulus setting I see for any of the arrows. Aha! It's under FX>StimFX>WaterArrowStimExplosion
It was staring me right in the face all along. LOL I had looked there two or three times last night but I was so tired, I just didn't read it properly. Finding some interesting things out in there.
Edit:
Heh, works like a charm. So, if I want to create a traditional holy water arrow, I just need to figure out how to add and remove the holy water stim from the water arrow.....or I could just create an entirely separate holy water arrow. We'll see which works out.
New Horizon on 15/9/2005 at 22:26
For simplicity, I created a completely separate holywater arrow. If we want, we can just drop it into inventory and say...hey, Garrett now carries around 'blessed' water arrows, or....we can try to work out how to swap this one in...or apply the holywater stimulus to the water arrow for a short period of time. I never really considered what was happening in the original games a 'timeout'. What happened in my mind is that Garrett was dousing the water arrows with holy water and that he was simply running out. It could have been done in a different way I suppose....like giving the player four or five shots and then the vial is empty. That would certainly be more realistic.
...but I digress.
So, we have one option readily available to us already and one that I'll need some help figuring out.
1. A separate HolyWater Arrow. It's ready to go.
One that I need help with.
2. A way to 'use' the holy water vial from inventory and have it either 'swap' the water arrow out of inventory for four shots or 'apply' the holywater stim to the water arrow for a period of four shots.
I've been toying with some ideas, but I'm really not the best person at figuring out this stuff. :)
Shockeye on 16/9/2005 at 09:53
Will Garrett still be able to throw the vials as well?
I know this would be reduntant (unless he was running low on arrows) but in "real life" there's no reason why he couldn't throw the vials as well.
Unless there are no vials, and he just dunks his arrows in a HW fountain and the stay HW for a limited time after.
Crispy on 16/9/2005 at 12:53
Heh... bad memories of time-limited holy water... I remember going to the holy water fountain in the haunted mines in Cragscleft again and again, just so I could shoot this single zombie. Did it, too; there was just enough time to frob the fountain, dash down the corridor, take the lift up a floor, and get off a couple of shots before the timer ran out. Yeah, I know, I know, stupid; but I really didn't want that thing behind me. I managed to get up the courage to just run past eventually. :laff:
Needless to say, I got extremely freaked out in some of the later levels... I finally cracked at the beginning of the mission where you go back to the cathedral. Waaay too many undead. :nono: Never did end up finishing the game... I much preferred Thief 2, simply because the robots were still freaky ("ALL PRAISE BE TO KARRAS") but not nearly as scary.
*cough* Okay, enough off-topic nostalgia. The holy water vials in T3 were annoying (really. hard. to. aim.), but having the holy water run out in T1/T2 was annoying too. (Plus it didn't make a whole lot of sense... it's stays holy forever while it's in the vial, but somehow loses it when it's applied to the water arrow? Um, okay.)
Admittedly, having water arrows double as holy water arrows made them much more valuable gameplay-wise, which I suspect was the point. Use the water arrows on the zombie, or save them in case you find an enemy that can't be (easily) snuck past without taking out a torch? It's one of those "interesting decisions" that add up to make a great game. And once that was done, the holy water had to be made to run out, because otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having more than one holy water flask in any given mission, and there would no longer be any point hoarding them in case you'd need them later. You'd just apply it once at the beginning of each level and then forget about it. Bo-ring.
That said, anything that helps zombies die (again) quicker and more easily is fine by me. :thumb:
New Horizon on 16/9/2005 at 13:42
Quote Posted by Crispy
(Plus it didn't make a whole lot of sense... it's stays holy forever while it's in the vial, but somehow loses it when it's applied to the water arrow? Um, okay.)
Not sure why they chose that route, rather than just giving the player 3 or 4 shots per vial of holy water. That would have been a bit more predictable. That's the way I'm attempting to do it here, instead of the timeout.
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Admittedly, having water arrows double as holy water arrows made them much more valuable gameplay-wise, which I suspect was the point.
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. It puts the player in a situation where he/she has to make a choice...do I try to take out all these zombies or do I save some water arrows...just in case?
At any rate, if I can figure out how to do this...holy water won't expire...it will just affect a limited number of your arrows.
Any thoughts on how to do this with scripting would be greatly appreciated. I'm really having a tough time with it.
