Goldmoon Dawn on 16/1/2014 at 01:49
Quote Posted by legoman
If EM believes nuthief can be completed as an iron ghost, it probably means the game is going to be far more forgiving than the originals. Which unfortunately implies its going to be much easier.
Or, it is a thinly veiled insult to the original fans. They are trying to say "hey, "classic Thief" used to be saving 30 saves per mission, so iron man mode is better than the originals!". No one in their right mind would try to endure this level of torture on purpose. We invented ghost mode as we went, because it was intuitively built into the original games masterful engine to do so. To now force you to get through the entire game without missing a hitch, or start over is missing the point. It is complete overkill, whereas The Dark Project unfolded naturally and sublimely.
Renzatic on 16/1/2014 at 02:25
Save scumming isn't something to brag about, Goldmoon. It's a cheesy as hell artifact of a bygone era, and to me, ruins the immersion.
Goldmoon Dawn on 16/1/2014 at 04:07
Brother Renzatic, surely thou didst note that they are reducing the true "classic gamers" to people who *cough* "save scummed" their way through The Dark Project. Excuse me, but I do believe that there was so much more to the game than that, dont you agree? Brother Renzatic?
:ebil:
june gloom on 16/1/2014 at 04:37
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Save scumming isn't something to brag about, Goldmoon. It's a cheesy as hell artifact of a bygone era, and to me, ruins
the immersion.
I don't think it ruins the immersion inherently. The Dark Engine, if we're being perfectly honest, is a clunky, weird piece of junk at times. Overall it can be quite smooth, reminding me at times of the Quake engine, or perhaps the early Unreal engine. (Depends on whether it's Thief 1 or 2.) But it can bug out at the most inopportune times, which is why some versions of Ironman mode accede to making saves before doing anything like rope-climbing, just in case something goes wrong that the player can't control.
Now, Dark Souls, that's how you Ironman. Even if you light the bonfires, you're still screwed if you die.
Renzatic on 16/1/2014 at 05:23
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Brother Renzatic, surely thou didst note that they are reducing the true "classic gamers" to people who *cough* "save scummed" their way through The Dark Project. Excuse me, but I do believe that there was so much more to the game than that, dont you agree? Brother Renzatic?
:ebil:
I've heard a lot of good arguments for being able to save anywhere, and I can't say they're wrong exactly, but my entirely subjective opinion is that quicksaving ruins the feeling of risk you get from a game like Thief. If you come across a difficult scenario, you don't have to weigh your options. Don't have to consider the pros and cons of doing something. Instead of looking at a situation and thinking "am I good enough to pull this off", it's "let me save right quick and try this". Yeah, it's arguably more fun, but it's also more...for lack of a better word...gamey. A real thief would have to deeply consider every move he makes before he makes it, because in real life, there are no quickloads.
Like Deth said, Dark Souls is the perfect example for this. Not being able to save anywhere adds to the risk, the tension you feel while playing it. To me, it makes the game far more immersive because you don't get any do overs, and you don't ever have to utilize a game mechanic that isn't actually a direct part of the game itself. If you could save anywhere, it wouldn't be a nearly as exciting.
But since I can't say I'm 100% right, and the way I enjoy playing games might not be the way you enjoy playing games, we've got the choice between checkpoints, save anywhere, and ironman mode.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I don't think it ruins the immersion inherently. The Dark Engine, if we're being perfectly honest, is a clunky, weird piece of junk at times. Overall it can be quite smooth, reminding me at times of the Quake engine, or perhaps the early Unreal engine. (Depends on whether it's Thief 1 or 2.) But it can bug out at the most inopportune times, which is why some versions of Ironman mode accede to making saves before doing anything like rope-climbing, just in case something goes wrong that the player can't control.
Yeah, there are a lot of quirks in the old Dark Engine. If you've been playing the game on and off for over a decade like some people here, you can account for those quirks and work around them. But for me, when I pick up the game after not having played it for 2-3 years, I'm reminded of the annoying crap that doesn't do quite what it's supposed to do. Like mantling is a hit or miss affair. You never know if the game will let you grab onto something, or miss it entirely for some reason. You do have to save scum in Thief 1 & 2, and it makes it almost impossible to iron man unless you know EXACTLY how the engine works.
Esme on 22/1/2014 at 12:34
I'm currently replaying the dark project, I'm saving a lot, not reloading very often though, I can assure you my palms are still getting sweaty and I'm still jerking back in my chair at events, saving whenever I want sure isn't affecting my immersion.
gunsmoke on 24/1/2014 at 16:00
That was one GREAT advantage to Deadly Shadows and TDM. They tend to be much less glitchy. I have played DS dozens of times on PC and Xbox. I can't remember anything bad save for a hard freeze on Xbox once (hardware related/overheated).
The Dark Engine *%^#& with me at least once every time I load it up...
sNeaksieGarrett on 26/1/2014 at 00:44
I don't always post twice in a row, but when I do, it's because it's necessary:
(
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3406141)
We kind of knew this part already, but he goes into detail (and he's a old Thief fan/player like us rather than a typical journalist) about the options we're presented with, and, as a shocker (well maybe not if you think about Deus Ex Human Revolution I guess), the options are available to console users as well:
Quote Posted by ausgamers
Thief is about options. It's about your options in the menus, where you can turn off basically... everything. Seriously, everything from the objective markers down to the lightgem itself can be turned off if you want, so you can roam around The City hudless just as Hermes, God of Thievery, intended. While you're in the menus, you've got options about the difficulty settings, where you can jack up or lower the difficulty as you wish. You can play as a ham-fisted Clouseau-esque burglar and get away with it on the easiest setting, but if you want you can whack the whole thing up to ultra-hard, playing without Focus (more on that later), with super-alert guards hunting you every step of the way, the whole time knowing that if you fail just once you'll have to start the whole game over from the beginning. And of course, you can play everything in between.