vfig on 26/9/2023 at 16:39
i started this reply to Angder’s comment on youtube (since my recording from months ago has finally gone up on my channel), but ended up writing so much that i think it belongs here better:
Quote Posted by "Angder"
The spiders lair was supposed to be built in such a way that you can escape even if you lose your flares. But I know for a fact that there are 2 lights missing from that intent. I have considered placing them in and updating it, but I don't want to get stuck in a cycle of repairing the same mission when I could be working on a new one.
a fundamental problem with the spider lair (well, apart from the spiders, lol) is having no idea (or at best only a slight idea) of what you are going in there to collect. various scattered loot is expected, of course, but is not the goal except for those players aiming to 100%. but having struggled through it and ending up thinking “did i miss the important thing?” is a real downer. in my playthrough i went in twice and was
still wondering afterwards if i had missed the goal :(
you certainly provided more than enough flares for a single traversal. even two, as i unhappily found. but three traversals wasnt going to be possible.
it would have been nice to increase the flares dynamic light radius to 1.5-2x the thief 2 default. its not the year 2000 anymore :) — note that the radius does not make the brightly lit area larger, because the falloff is unchanged; but it helps to see geometry faintly, reducing the ‘sudden wall of blackness’ effect.
the vagaries of object lighting in thief means the exit rope does not actually get illuminated by flares. now it is not unreasonable for it to only be visible in silhouette, but the range of angles you can see it in is too narrow. a more practical approach would be to give the rope a small amount of Extra Light.
finally (and this is the crux), having zero-ambient spaces in thief where you face fighting enemies is a pile of fail. not as a concept, but because so much of
simply existing as a player needs you to be able to see at least slightly. obviously the concept is to have an interesting and stressful tradeoff between navigating and fighting (and perhaps stealthing, but given how flares illuminate the player, stealth is not very viable unless you have played it once already and have a good idea of where the enemies are going to be). but simply knowing if you are looking ahead or up at the ceiling or down at the floor needs you to be able to see*, because you obviously cannot feel your neck. knowing if you are crouched or standing needs you to be able to see**. when fighting, aiming arrows and adjusting aim by seeing where they went needs you to be able to see. even just swinging your sword needs you to be able to see, because the sword is pitch black against pitch black. and yet in pitch blackness, where the player cannot see anything at all, enemies can navigate perfectly, and when alerted can see garrett perfectly too. and of course, you cant hold a weapon and a flare at the same time. and unlike weapons usually, nobody is going to have flares ready on a hotkey (even though there is one in default keybinds), because flares suck and are nobody uses them enough to remember the hotkey or set up a custom one. so youre also demanding the player fumble through the clumsy thief inventory just to try to be able to see what theyre fighting or see to get away from it. it all adds up to be really really really frustrating.
it is evident that you put careful thought into the design of this area—but lacking a clear goal and goal-achieved state, together with all the problems the engine brings from existing, let alone fighting in pitch black darkness, the result is still a mess.
(an untested idea: making the enemies start to glow as they get alerted might be an effective mitigation for some of those issues.)
(*the compass actually provides some feedback on your vertical view angle, but it is imperfect, and nobody is going to be adapted to using it that way, even if they are aware that it can do so, which is generally unlikely)
(**footstep rhythm provides feedback on crouched vs standing, and most players will likely be able to interpret that, but you have to already be moving at a continuous pace to get this feedback)
