Bananagrams on 5/7/2018 at 15:51
It's been some time (2008 or so) since I actively followed the TTLG community. I recently replayed both Thief 1 and 2, and learned briefly about the Dark Engine source code, the creation of New Dark, etc. I'm still a bit confused on the details, and I was hoping to have some things cleared up :)
Where is the Dark Engine source code? Can I get access to it? I read that a few "trusted individuals" have a private repo with it. Who are they and what have they done with it? Is there any way to contact them to request a snapshot of the code? Has it since been made public at all?
I have some hazy memories of some base missions of Thief 2 Gold either being leaked or gifted to the community. Has there been any progress with restoring those missions? Was this release related at all to the source code leak?
I've learned briefly about the failed petition with Eidos for officially releasing the source code. Have they since followed up at all? Have they commented on the leak or on New Dark?
Who released New Dark? Are they a member of TTLG? Are they still actively updating it? Was New Dark made using the previously mentioned leak of the source code?
voodoo47 on 5/7/2018 at 16:21
-the source code has been leaked by a guy from the Dreamcast community who found it on a dev kit he purchased. should still be possible to find it on the internet if you want to have a look.
-a few T2G missions have indeed been made available to the community, but (apart from one fan mission) nothing significant has been done with them, as they are pretty much just bare levels in a very early phase of development, without any additional resources like extra voice acting etc. no relation to the source code.
-Eidos had the SS2 source code at one point, and they actually talked to some TTLG members for a while, but they've stopped responding after some time, so they don't care anymore, apparently.
-NewDark is being released by the Raven at Ariane4ever forum, with the latest release being just a couple of weeks old. the Raven only appears when dropping a new release, and then vanishes again, that's pretty much all we know.
Valet2 on 5/7/2018 at 18:56
Hmm... Didn't actually know that there were source files in the leak. But now I'm searching the forums - yeah, people say there was a lot of stuff.
I thought that only unfinished builds were available, and nothing more. Still have them here: (
ftp://ftp.valet2.com/system_shock_2_dreamcast/)
Would love to get other files as well.
Bulgarian_Taffer on 5/7/2018 at 21:18
The Thief 2 Gold is one sad story, which I think should be left to rest in peace where it belongs - in the past.
downwinder on 6/7/2018 at 02:21
i agree bulgarian taffer
the entire idea of thief 1 gold was cause thief one was a bit rushed to release and gold would have been t1 if not rushed,t2 would have been same deal
but considering how gaming industry is now,no company's put out a full game anymore,
in the end a cash grab for the same crap with a few more things added=not worth it
i would much rather see a prequel to thief 1=play as artamis maybe?,find out about alot of things we never knew
Bulgarian_Taffer on 6/7/2018 at 07:16
Quote Posted by downwinder
the entire idea of thief 1 gold was cause thief one was a bit rushed to release and gold would have been t1 if not rushed,t2 would have been same deal
Thief 2 was rushed, actually.. Skacky found some cool photos of the original Thief 2 patch:
(
https://twitter.com/skacky/status/1014500908682670080)
So yes - missing brushes, no stairways :)
voodoo47 on 6/7/2018 at 11:35
Quote Posted by downwinder
a prequel to thief 1=play as artamis maybe?
yes from the time gurratt was only a kid
voodoo47 on 6/7/2018 at 16:43
the 1.07/1.18 hybrid has a few textures and other resources missing, and the scripts and gamesys are out of date. nothing catastrophic, but will most likely cause subtle issues here and there, and maybe break some FMs that rely on the latest versions of the vanilla scripts. anyway, (
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CRMBxok2FEPhMNoXrezLVtF9ZFHu8KEY) fix.
and yes, both steam and GOG use the hybrid, but GOG should be fixed as soon as they deploy the(ir) 1.26 build.
Bananagrams on 8/7/2018 at 22:19
Thanks, voodoo47. Definitely appreciate the detailed response.
I've seen that DromEd is also getting various updates as well. Is this related to the Raven's work? Or a separate team?
Quote Posted by Bulgarian_Taffer
The Thief 2 Gold is one sad story, which I think should be left to rest in peace where it belongs - in the past.
Anywhere I could learn more about it? I seem to vaguely remember that you (or was it Random_Taffer?) were a part of the team, is that correct? Not to bring up bad memories, but I'm curious...
Bulgarian_Taffer on 9/7/2018 at 04:24
Quote Posted by Bananagrams
Anywhere I could learn more about it? I seem to vaguely remember that you (or was it Random_Taffer?) were a part of the team, is that correct? Not to bring up bad memories, but I'm curious...
I think that both of us were part of the original fan project. And in the end, it was me who created the college mission and released it, with the help of some other people who weren't part of the original team.
The problem of Thief 2 Gold is not that it can't be finished. It can. The mission remnants are here, DromEd is here and there are enough skilled people who can do it.
The problem is that there are too many people here who try to dictate
how exactly the missions should be finished. Yes, none of us has been part of the original LGS team and none can actually recreate the LGS spirit. But that attitude is extremely discouraging. A person needs to be inspired in order to work on these mission. And he needs to have certain creative freedom in order to create art. Imitation is the surest way to fail. The funny thing is that such toxic attitude towards the efforts to work on T2G missions is stupid. Many of the FMs, although different from the OMs, are of higher quality.
I'm going to expand on this, and I'll say that I strongly suppose it's largely the community's fault of why NuThief was a debacle. The attitude towards the representative here in the early stage of development, and dictating how Thief 4 should be done, may have convinced the team that they can't please us, which led to thrashing everything that made Thief good, and start anew. Of course, I don't have proof that this is what has happened (as I don't know anybody working at EM), and it's just an educated guess. But I won't be surprised if that's what really happened.