Mercurius on 6/11/2007 at 12:35
Well I was making pretty good progress on a replacement pistol. Made the mesh and got it in-game being held by the default pistol hand. I created a new hand and managed to get that ingame too (not pictured).
Inline Image:
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4641/001rz0.jpgNow I'm getting this error in NV's 3DS to Bin frontend:
Axle "@z00gr0099" should have 2 points. It has 41!When I finish compiling to .bin and then try the model ingame, it's no longer being held by an arm and appears stretched like this:
Inline Image:
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8692/002lh2.jpgThat name refers to the arm part. I noticed that partway down the arm, it's physically separated from the rest of the mesh, leaving a seam. I have no clue how the joint system works but I imagine this is part of it.
Anyhow I tried starting over again with the default arm but no matter what I do now, I get that error.
Please help!
Nameless Voice on 6/11/2007 at 12:57
The "@" symbol denotes a poly group with a special purpose, such as an axle.
@z is a translating axle.
If a group is defined as an axle by its name, then bsp will assume it to be an axle, leading to errors if it is not.
The pistol has an axle halfway down its surface, for the slide barrel assembly, which is a separate poly group (named with @s to denoted a joint submodel).
The axle is a single line poly group with exactly two vertices. For a translating axle, the joint will slide along the axle.
Unfortunately, the axle is lost when converting the original pistol model through AccuTrans3D, which ignores poly groups with only two verts.
The joint on the original pistol model is bugged anyway - it's the wrong way around, which is why the slide barrel was never animated.
However, I have a fixed version of the model, which I have uploaded (in .3ds and .max format) here: (
http://files.filefront.com/System+Shock+2+pistol/;8977750;/fileinfo.html) Fixed SS2 pistol model (.max & .3ds)
Use it as a guide on how to arrange and name the poly groups.
You'll usually find someone who can help you with this type of thing on the (
irc://irc.starchat.net/systemshock) #SystemShock IRC channel
Mercurius on 6/11/2007 at 13:03
Thank you so much NV for the quick response, you're an angel :angel:
EDIT: Problem solved, on to texturing!
RocketMan on 6/11/2007 at 22:59
Are you going to mimic the original weapon style? I tried doing that with the weapons i've redone with limited success. Still, it'd be nice to have a mod that anyone could apply without having to wonder if it'll change their gameplay experience in a way that detracts from the game's intent.
Mercurius on 7/11/2007 at 03:41
Quote Posted by RocketMan
Are you going to mimic the original weapon style? I tried doing that with the weapons i've redone with limited success. Still, it'd be nice to have a mod that anyone could apply without having to wonder if it'll change their gameplay experience in a way that detracts from the game's intent.
That's my intent. The original weapon models aren't really so bad but the textures are atrocious. However simply retexturing them wouldn't be good enough because the UVs are totally screwed up.
As long as I'm going in to re-UV, I might as well add some more polys to the mess :p But in games like this, it's really the textures that make the model.
Inline Image:
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7908/dump000adf1.jpgInline Image:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3931/dump000bpm1ls0.jpgI'm making good progress now. There's actually a slim chance of me completing and releasing these :O
RocketMan on 7/11/2007 at 04:15
YESSSSS that a boy!! (re: pistol)
hand is a little messed but I assume that's a wip. I say this with the utmost respect though cuz i can't make a hand at all.
release that pistol asap...it looks hot.
Mercurius on 7/11/2007 at 04:49
Yes, the fatty hand has been fixed :D
A few questions to any who can answer them:
1. How do I set smoothing groups? I read that dependent on the texture, geometry can be set to either all faceted or all smoothed...how? Also that polygons could be cut at the seams to simulate a selective faceting. Does this work and are there any problems with it?
2. What should I know about the textures? Can Shock2 only handle 256x256 .pcx? Also what kind of palette settings do I need to keep in mind?
3. How does the game determine where the weapon is displayed on your hud? I had assumed that it uses the origin point of your model scene to place it, but I've noticed that the gun shifts position on the screen simply from deleting a rear stock.
4. Is shock capable of any special texture effects beyond fullbright and (badly) animated?
5. NORMALS! Why do my normals keep getting flipped? Also is it better to triangulate the model before importing? (I work in quads)
RocketMan on 7/11/2007 at 05:03
1. It depends on your 3d program. In max, you can select all polygons that you want to appear smooth and click a smoothing group number in the toolbar on the right at the very bottom. Basically if you're in doubt, select all polygons, use the clear smoothing groups button and then select only the ones you want and assign numbers to them in the smoothing groups area. All boundaries between smoothing groups will have visible seams.
2. 256 x 256 is maximum supported. you can have pcx, gif, tga, i think bmp and that's probably it but i'm not sure. Palette has to be 8 bit (tga is an exception i think) and the last entry (255) has to be a color not in your texture otherwise it will be transparent for every instance of that color.
3. NV's conversion tool has translation and rotation boxes that will determine the orientation of a weapon in the game. It applies to both hand and world models but you are interested in hand models or those with _h suffixes.
4. Phong and gouraud shading is all i know of.
5. I dunno why your normals are flipping....if you are creating polies manually to fill holes, etc then there is sometimes a convention (clockwise vs. anticlockwise) that determines the direction of the normal. You can always flip them later if they are wrong.
Mercurius on 7/11/2007 at 05:16
1. My problem is that I have all the shading groups set in my modelling proggie (Maya) but once I get them into the game, they've all been set to smooth. Also everything I've seen in the game is smooth-shaded.
4. Are you sure about the Phong? I haven't seen specular lighting on a single thing in the game. Everything appears to be rendered Gourad.
5. Some normals are definitely getting flipped during the compile process. I've manually checked the normals in Max and ensured that they're facing properly before I export to 3DS.
Kolya on 7/11/2007 at 06:10
Yay! Looking forward to that pistol! :D
