Ghostly Apparition on 6/12/2007 at 21:32
Quote Posted by Thief13x
oh fuck you old man, what do you know about today's youth? seriously? how many freinds do you have and hang out with that are 16-24? you better get a clue, and fast because having kids of your own you of all people should understand this kind of shit.
Thats the same kind of Grown-ups don't understand me attitude the shooter most likely had. :erg:
heretic on 6/12/2007 at 21:33
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
..and what proportion of those guns are legally owned? More than half you say? Closer to 3 quarters? No shit. Sherlock.
Austria and Switzerland have more legally owned guns per capita than any other developed nation, yet their gun crime statistics are very low, and their violent gun crime rates even lower as compared to far lesser-armed countries. And what's this about an (
http://www.crimeinfo.org.uk/servlet/factsheetservlet?command=viewfactsheet&factsheetid=102&category=factsheets) annual six percent growth in gun crimes in the UK since the ban was imposed in '97?
SubJeff on 6/12/2007 at 21:50
What kind of idiot argument is that? Gun crime is on the rise in the UK because of illegal firearms.
How does that change the fact that we haven't had a mass shooting of the type in question since 97 or the fact that we have a fraction of the gun crime of the US - by virtue of having tough gun laws or otherwise?
Please explain to me what Austria and Switzerland have to do with this? Guns don't suit America. That's it. Guns are available and there are people who pull this kind of stuff in the US, so perhaps the law should change. In the US. It seems that other counties don't have the same sort of shooter nutbags as the US.
It's like people drinking more in the UK than in some European countries. It's in our culture for people to get wrecked all the time, not in theirs.
Renault on 6/12/2007 at 22:07
Quote Posted by Thief13x
I don't get where the hostility is from, i'm just saying I have lots of freinds who throw around phrases like "pretty much everything sucks about pretty much everything in life" and "the only good thing about living is smoking" and shit like that. I've hear it all a million times from kids who own a ps3, iphone, and sports car courtesy of their parents. They never quit whining about how much life sucks. After a few years you kinda start to realise that they can't look at the good things in life, but never would go as far as they claim. It's the ongoing constant attitude of doom and gloom that causes the stereotype. Most of em can't get a girlfreind because all they do is whine about shit. Thats all I'm saying.
And everyone else on TTLG is saying, what the fuck does this have to do with emo music? These types of attitudes have been around for a long time, it's nothing new.
Depressed people very likely listen to depressing music (what a shocker, I know). It's pretty absurd to conclude that the music is what made them depressed in the first place.
heretic on 6/12/2007 at 22:08
SE,
Washingtom DC carries UK-like laws in regards to handgun carry, yet has the highest murder rate in the US, by far.
Arlington VA has no ban, and the murder rates are lower than London.
By the way that wasn't an argument, it was an observation.
I just find it odd that this discussion turned to gun control rather than how our pharmaceutical controlled youth are going apeshit.
Kuuso on 6/12/2007 at 22:19
Quote Posted by Brother Renault
And everyone else on TTLG is saying, what the fuck does this have to do with emo music? These types of attitudes have been around for a long time, it's nothing new.
Depressed people very likely listen to depressing music (what a shocker, I know). It's pretty absurd to conclude that the music is what made them depressed in the first place.
Then again, what Thief13x probably constitutes as "emo" music (which is actually a sub-genre of punk, derived from Emotional Hardcore) is one of these new pop bands,with absolutely shite lyrics about sadness. The music is such an earrape that it most likely causes mental illnesses and mass shootings. Has nothing to do with it being emotional though.
catbarf on 6/12/2007 at 22:45
This thread has turned to win since I last came here. Failure2comply got beaten down...
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Gun ownership is (largely) illegal in the UK and has been since a mass shooting in 96 I think. Guess how many mass shootings we've had since then? Compare the proportion of murders in the USA in which a gun is the weapon to those in the UK. Massive difference. And what proportion of those guns are legally owned? More than half you say? Closer to 3 quarters? No shit. Sherlock.
Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership, yet a relatively low crime rate. Correlation does not equal causation. And regardless, this is just more rhetoric. Anything you or I could possibly bring up has been debated before, and on the internet nobody is going to change their mind or be convinced. And, this has almost nothing to do with the original topic. So just drop it.
SubJeff on 6/12/2007 at 22:59
I know correlation doesn't equal causation but I'll tell you one 100% correlation to causation instance you'll find: being killed by shooting is always always always caused by a gun and bullet.
You can't spin it any other way.
And the whole point of me mentioning drinking in the UK as compared to Europe was EXACTLY to explain the issue of the Swiss and guns you dolt. Let me break it down for you:
UK + alcohol = heavy drinking. Spain + alcohol != heavy drinking.
USA + guns = lots of gun violence. The Swiss + guns != lots of gun violence.
I already said this.
And the same thing goes for Washingtom DC and Arlington VA.
What you twits might find is that sometimes you require 2 factors to create a fire - like a firestarter AND some wood. Why must there be a one to one relationship? Frikking one dimensional thinkers all over my internet.
scumble on 6/12/2007 at 23:07
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Please explain to me what Austria and Switzerland have to do with this?
It's a social or cultural question. Would stricter gun laws really do anything about the underlying mental problems of teenagers? Does a lower murder rate mean less violent crime overall? London usually clocks up nearly 200 reported murders each year. Most things I've seen seem to suggest that gun ownership or the easy availability of guns alters the balance of murder and other violent crimes, which kind of shows that if underlying social problems are still there, the violence migrates somewhere else. Instead of a man shooting his wife in a rage, he might beat or rape her regularly for 15 years instead. Which is "better"?
Thinking out loud, but there you go...
Also, moving into impartial statistics mode, deaths due to gun related crimes and murder are dwarfed by things such as medical accidents and car crashes. Should one rejoice in preventing the occasional high-profile massacre or doing something about road safety so that a thousand less people are killed each year.
Any instance of death is terrible, but gun issues seem to override more mundane causes of death that aren't reported.
Well I thought I had a point when I started, but it is getting late and I can't be arsed anymore.
Scots Taffer on 6/12/2007 at 23:52
Quote Posted by Thief13x
i'm just saying I have lots of freinds who throw around phrases like
"pretty much everything sucks about pretty much everything in life" and
"the only good thing about living is smoking" and shit like that. I've hear it all a million times from kids who own a ps3, iphone, and sports car courtesy of their parents. They never quit whining about how much life sucks.
Man, I typed up this huge fuck off post about how consumerism focus in families by the start of the early 80s contributed to the massive divorce rate, which then had an effect on the way that people approached relationships in the 90s and how the overall impact of our increased wealth in this society means that we have all become hollow vehicles of consumerism, people are selfish and the actions of every government post-vietnam and pre-iraq has shown that they couldn't give a fuck about what the public think, when democracy fails, apathy reigns until extremism takes hold, everyone walks around like empty shells and the pain of these kids is just a sad truth that most families don't give a fuck about each other, they grew up from broken homes or in hard times, they insulated themselves from their own feelings and treated relationships like tenuous business deals and holy fuck I'm typing out a big post again I'm just going to stop
