Rogue Keeper on 14/3/2006 at 16:24

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And who made that oxygen atmosphere, Saint Proverbius? :)
What's your take on balance?

Mortal Monkey on 14/3/2006 at 16:25

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I am somewhat dissapointed that we haven't been able to kill the earth's ecosystem (or even earth itself) despite the combination of nuclear weapons, power-hungry leaders, elusive terrorists, hallucinogens, countless hackers and all the nutcases.
Clearly someone with all these properties combined would be the pinnacle of evolution itself.


PS ninjar edit: I laugh at your medical ethics.

Aerothorn on 14/3/2006 at 17:16

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I suppose what bothers me about animal research is that there's no end to it. The justification is "sure, these animals have to be horribly tortured, but if we're able to do it we'll get this scientific breakthrough and all of socieity will be better for it". So you'd think that eventually once we had all these we'd all be better and we wouldn't have to do the testing anymore. But of course, that's not how science works, it doesn't stop, its just a constant stride for progress...so no matter what we get from these experiments, we'll continue to find excuses for animal testing...so yeah, I am really against it. And while I totally understand the practical problems of doing it on humans - they would just end up grabbing homeless people off the street - at least if they did it on humans people would more easilly feel empathy about it/realize how horrible it is.

Oh, who am I kidding, no they wouldn't. Yeah, it's just fucked all around.

SD on 14/3/2006 at 19:05

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I'm not opposed to the use of animals in medical experiments, per se (although as a vegetarian I find them hugely distasteful and atavistic). However, I would seriously question whether all of the experiments we perform on animals these days are entirely necessary.

Take the experiment mentioned in the original post, for example (the one that prompted the poster to label animal rights activists as "tards"). Was it really necessary to make hamsters blind so that we could find out if their sight could be restored?

Would it not have been a damn sight more useful if we had performed these experiments on humans who were already blind (and don't try and tell me you wouldn't have a queue of volunteers longer than the Gulf War casualty list if there was even a slight chance that their blindness could be cured)?

What it boils down to is that experiments on unwilling animals are, for one reason or another, a hell of a lot cheaper than experiments on willing human participants. It's this "screw morals, let's think of the money" approach that sickens me more than the actual experiments themselves.


Oh come on. Nobody ever took notice of Irish Republicanism until the IRA started blowing up minibuses and kneecapping Protestants. Any political movement that hopes to effect real change really does benefit from having a gaggle of angry miscreants bringing up the rear.

Now this isn't to be taken as tacit support for the ALF. The point is that when you have a group like the ALF fighting the same battle, moderates like me look rather less like a bunch of hippy loonies and rather more like People You Can Deal With.


Okay, I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, but:
would never have happened if that mink farm hadn't been in this country in the first place (which is perhaps the more pertinent point).


This story I take with a pinch of salt, largely because (a) it appeared in the Mail on Sunday and (b) the guy who was "branded" ran straight to the papers without actually notifying the police (which I find hugely suspicious in itself).


Barbaric, but effective. Like I say, not wishing to condone the actions of the ALF, but financial institutions that are willing to handle accounts for Huntingdon Life Sciences are about as rare as rocking horse shit these days. Personally, I find it rather sad that it took direct violence to persuade these people not to do business with such a vile bunch of people as HLS.

TheGreatGodPan on 14/3/2006 at 19:36

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It was all the girl's fault I raped her. She wouldn't have sex with me. At least I make the rest of you guys look good enough in comparison so you can get some tail.