37637598 on 11/1/2009 at 00:33
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
what
yeah, what the fuck?
And you really think a movie where a girl that commits suicide and falls in love with a bum who's phone was stolen by raccoons, is trite?
haha I know you were talking about the rest of the movie.
Remember, this is a short film. It's allowed to mostly suck and still pass. :cheeky:
Muzman on 11/1/2009 at 01:38
I should probably say something vaguely useful;
You can't start on Brad. This isn't about Brad. Screw Brad. He doesn't even exist really. He's a fantasy concocted of her self importance, ingratitude and regret, even if he was once a real person.
If you really want to tell a suicide story you should have the newpaper bit expanded into some sort of reflection on her hope that everyone would miss her terribly and the whole world would stop at her death and mourn. Her dad would change, all the boys she loved but spurned her would weep in public or kill themselves in sympathy.
Truth is suicides almost never make the paper until a long time after the fact, unless they are spectacular. Even then media doesn't want to be involved in accusations of sensationalism or causing copy-cats by giving people ideas.
Not much would change. Few would notice. The paramedics and clean up people would sweep her up and carry on to the next inconvenient mess like someone just knocked over a carton of pickled onion jars. They'd probably even crack a few jokes, as would the cops. And this realisation wouldn't cheer her up one bit so the cycle begins again. That's closer to the reality of it.
It might even be interesting if she attempts and the real Brad shows up and he's not some damaged yet noble free spirit, but a regular guy who is terribly confused by the whole thing.
The other thing is, does she really need to be the exemplar of sweetness and light whose joie de vive is endlessly expressed and spreads delight where she walks through her love of all life, despite being the product of an unpleasant and abusive home environment? What should she be like then? Well I dunno exactly, but there's other ways to make someone sympathetic and likable.
Some background on this: Back at school me and some others, upon seeing the typical thrust of at least half of the shorts people were proposing, discussed making a parody film about a film school tutor who, after having to review endless films year after year about troubled nineteen year old girls who the world doesn't understand going mad and killing themselves, goes mad and kills him/herself. It would of course feature every flashback, dream within a dream and 'streaky low shutter speed post effect on hand held footage' technique known to man.
Most of the authors, male and female alike, weren't suicidal, not even close. Nor were they even peripherally associated with anyone who was. They just though they were, or had been, in the depths of their rage and frustration at some stage in their life.
Just so you know where I'm coming from in this vague mockery.
All the same you should still make this, or try to. All those bits that have a lot of detail that is inappropriate for a script should still be written out. Do a rewrite or two along the lines you think it should take and then try and get it done. Otherwise stop at draft 3 and walk away from it forever. The worst thing to do would be to endlessly tweak it, thinking it'll one day become the conceptually perfect suicidal girl story. Despite what I say about it, plenty of people just sort of have to do this and it's better that they do. Plenty of folks swing to the other extreme of originality for originality's sake upon realising this is a bit trite, which is just as bad.
37637598 on 11/1/2009 at 02:51
Bare with me on this one;
Brad is the shining light she was waiting for that never came. You have to see my goal in this film. It's an anti-suicide short. I really want to portrey the message that suicide is the worst thing you can do to yourself (well, duh...) and Brad is the angel that every teenage girl considering suicide is waiting for. The message is to never give up hope, to stick through the shit because your shining light will come too. I want every teenage girl that watches this movie to remember that. It's like, she was waiting all this time for something to come into her life, and by the time she gave up, it finally arrived. The audience will see that and think 'oh that's nice'. Now when the end comes, she dies, they feel sick to their stomach because they want her to live and have that happiness she so desired.
The newspaper, meh, I think it should be changed to like a flyer in her school. If I decide to go this route, then I'll change the narration at the end to his voice saying "My name is Brad blabla, and today, I finally built the courage to ask out the love of my life." - then he sees the flyer, rage and pain grow in his face, and the movie ends.
The newspaper wasn't the important part, it was the fact that Brad sees her death and also realized that he waited too long to persue her. Whether or not the audience realizes that isn't important. They really just need to know that he passes the place where they would have met, and that seemed like the best excuse to show it.
My problem with her imagining people will mourn her or change, is that she feels like the world is no place for her. She feels like it's just a cruel place, she doesn't even want people to mourn her, she just wants out because there is nothing left in the world for her. This is why Brad is so important. He is that thing.
"The other thing is, does she really need to be the exemplar of sweetness and light whose joie de vive is endlessly expressed and spreads delight where she walks through her love of all life, despite being the product of an unpleasant and abusive home environment?"
She's in no way a delightful or joyful person. I did a horrible job of describing her personality, but I have bio's of each character writtewn out. The whole story is supposed to have a gloomy feel. Also, her dad never used to be evil. That's why when Brad asks about her family photos, she says she 'was happy 'back then' or whatever. You may notice her answers are generally short, perhaps a bit akward. She speaks softly. She doesn't say much, her short responses are due to her depressing personality. Not happy go lucky in any way. Not in any creepy out-cast goth way or anything. She has very little desire. She sees no depth in life, nothing worth her time or appreciation.
Then here comes this homeless guy who doesn't even have parents, yet he's 100000000000 times happier than her. His happiness in such a bad situation opens her eyes. It shows her that there is hope. This is why she's so accepting of him when she finds out that he's a bum. I definetely understand your point, which would add a greater and more interesting story, but it might steer too far from my goal of showing that Suicide is NOT the way out.
Your idea sounds awesome by the way! It would certainly be funny to see what a film tutor has to go through.
june gloom on 11/1/2009 at 03:21
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
what
I probably should've spelled it derivation.
37637598 on 11/1/2009 at 03:26
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I probably should've spelled it derivation.
Ok now it makes sense, and I agree, we can't ruin our own horror enough, so we have to go ruin Japans!
Muzman on 11/1/2009 at 03:42
A little highschool memorial is a good idea there. That's one of the few places such a thing would show up.
The thing to grasp is that in proper depressive cases, pointing out to people that even someone homeless and with nothing can still find life worth living is likely to make them feel worse and more guilty for not being satisfied with their own life. Depression is shameful and depressing for the depressed, you see. It's not a simple area. It's very individual with regards to what sets it off and how people rationalise it. Few people trying to send positive messages through stuff like this grasp that. They really just want their own feelings represented in media and feel like they're doing good at the same time. Such extraordinary insight into the life of one crazy person isn't possible in a short with a message, so things usually get fairly generic, as is the case here, and inneffectual. The real problem with suicide is that it very much is a way out, and a bloody great one.
This story isn't for the proper nutters though. It's actually for all the girls going through the odd bad patch who would be pitching angry suicide movies at film school in a couple of years that I mentioned earlier. This isn't the end of the world, so long as it is at least recognised.
Anyway, my previous advice still stands; polish it up the way you want a few times and make it or leave it behind for good. That's not because of the subject or anything it's just because it's the first thing and the faster you get past it the better it'll be.
I also think it's not Jacob's Ladder you should be watching. You should go get out Sliding Doors, Heathers and (judging by the pro mo clips anyway) watch Twilight. Seriously.
june gloom on 11/1/2009 at 06:41
Quote Posted by Muzman
Twilight37637598 on 11/1/2009 at 07:06
I haven't seen Heathers, I'll have to check it out.
I see what you're saying, how depressed teens would feel worse and more guilty for not being satisfied with their own life, but I think it's a lot more prone to get to their heart by saying that when they die they're throwing away any chance to have a happy ending, and that it REALLY is over. I don't want to give the message "if you commit suicide you will become famous in the media"... I want to say "if you committ suicide, you will never have this". I guarentee that any depressed teen has a lot better chance of NOT killing themselves if they have a love in their life. If they don't have a love in their life, I want to open their eyes even a little bit, to the possibility that it will happen in the future. No-one is going to watch this and think "hey that bum is happy and I'm not, I'm gonna consider suicide even more now". If anything they're more likely to say "that movie fuckin sucked" and never look back. If I make her death a big deal, they might think "I want that, I want people to mourn and pay for the misery they've caused me!"
I'm not questioning your statement at all, and you really are making a strong point, but It's not quite the message I want to send. You are right when you say that depressed people have very individual and unique cases from one another, and in my mind, what better way to connect to them than to give them something they love and wish they had, then take it all away. Will it make them more depressed? Perhaps, but it also might help them think about the possibility. A lot of depressed people are depressed because they're missing that someone in their life who makes them feel special. If a depressed person planned to kill themselves tonight at 8, then at 7 they met someone they loved, or that loved them, someone who made them feel special just because they liked him or her, I think that would have a major impact on the depressee's final decision. Kill myself? Or persue this person I've been missing in my life?
3rd person perspective anyone?
EDIT: also, I am definetely going to make 2 revisions of this screenplay with my my friend who is a writer, and another friend who is a special effects designer.
Queue on 11/1/2009 at 22:30
No really, this is one big joke. Right?
Ha ha ha--you guys really had me going for a minute, especially with the whole, "watch Twilight," advice. That's almost as rich as saying one should read Danielle Steel to learn how to write.
I mean, this is like encouraging some stone-cold hillbilly to load up a truck full of watermelons and drive north to find his riches: it can't possibly end well.
Scots Taffer on 11/1/2009 at 22:54
*listens to the tinkle of a banjo somewhere in the distance*
