blaydes99 on 28/6/2010 at 22:04
I don't know if it's just me, but all that "useless" extra stuff in games is what makes it so fun for me. Reading news stories, hacking ATMs, exploring, etc. - when you take all of that away and "streamline" a game, it takes all the fun and immersion out of it.
I want a game like SS2 or Deus Ex, not another console shooter trying to set itself apart with a few unique elements. I hope DX:HR will be that game...
Fafhrd on 29/6/2010 at 06:55
I was under the impression that they still used skill points, they just folded them into the aug system instead of having an entirely different game subsystem for them, and they essentially replace upgrade canisters. I.E. You get an 'exploration bonus' or something, and you can choose to invest those points into increasing your ability with one of your augmentations. I believe the explanation they had was that once the aug is installed, all of its capabilities are there, but Adam has to learn to use them.
I haven't played more than the demo of Invisible War, but weren't aug upgrades entirely upgrade canister based in that? This system (assuming I'm right about how it works) seems like a not terrible compromise between the two.
Papy on 29/6/2010 at 08:18
The form is different, but the effect is the same : lost of redundancy. I don't agree with Smith and Spector on why this redundancy is important, but I certainly agree it is important nonetheless.
The way I see it, Dugas is exactly like most developers : he thinks the importance is that the game makes it clear to the player what the story is about, he wants his point to be clear, but he forgets that the game should be really about the player and not about the developer's idea.
DDL on 29/6/2010 at 12:24
It wasn't like there was a great deal of redundancy in the DX system anyway: augs and skills occupied fairly mutually exclusive niches, for the most part. No aug would improve your hacking, no skill would improve your jumping.
Skills were mostly "things anyone could probably get better at, if trained", while augs were "superhuman things nano-compatible super agents could get, if the appropriate technology is located". They were nicely separable in game terms and real world plausibility.
Yes, augtarget could improve your gun accuracy, but if you wanted to reduce aiming time significantly, you'd still need to invest in some weapon skills.
Bout the only real overlap was aqualung and swimming, and swimming was hands down better, of the two (and I think it'd generally accepted that aqualung is a hilariously useless aug).
So I'm not sure redundancy is even an issue. Unless I'm missing the focus of what you consider redundant?
Koki on 29/6/2010 at 12:52
They're taking about game world redundancy, not mechanics.
DDL on 29/6/2010 at 13:23
Ah, ok. In which case..what exactly do you define as game world redundancy? Seems like it would be a very individually determined concept.
ZylonBane on 29/6/2010 at 15:48
Quote Posted by DDL
It wasn't like there was a great deal of redundancy in the DX system anyway: augs and skills occupied fairly mutually exclusive niches, for the most part. No aug would improve your hacking, no skill would improve your jumping.
You're forgetting consumable items, like vests and goggles. Between the three game systems of augs, skills, and items, there is a great deal of overlap. Any game designer who looks at this situation and wants to tidy it up is fundamentally missing the point.
van HellSing on 29/6/2010 at 18:34
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
You're forgetting consumable items, like vests and goggles. Between the three game systems of augs, skills, and items, there is a great deal of overlap. Any game designer who looks at this situation and wants to tidy it up is fundamentally missing the point.
Good thing there are still consumable items then, with an entirely new system for combining them.
But I do agree skills will be missed.
ZylonBane on 29/6/2010 at 18:42
Quote Posted by van HellSing
Good thing there are still consumable items then, with an entirely new system for combining them.
Consumable items
that overlap augs?
blaydes99 on 30/6/2010 at 18:12
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Deus Ex, wasn't it that consumables serve the same function as an aug but for a limited time only; to increase their potency/duration, it depended on certain skill levels, correct?
-Using a Rebreather (item) vs Aqua Lung (Aug)
-Thermo. Camo. vs. Invisibility (Aug)
-etc.
I'm not sure at this point how the way DX:HR wants to handle this is going to have any effect on gameplay. Care to explain how you see it?
