OnionBob on 3/12/2006 at 19:17

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You absolutely love it you great big turd. You perform this persona to get the attention you crave, positive or negative. Like every hack with an inferiority complex, you believe that people are sitting around here waiting for your every word so that we can attack it because we have nothing better to do. You knew what the responses would be on the whole, but you went ahead and posted the thread anyway. Not because you "don't care" but because you desperately want to continue performing this woe-is-me, maligned artist persona.

In fact I think your biggest emotion in this issue has likely been a sense of disappointment that so few people have even replied to this worthless thread, and throughout the whole thing a fair chunk of it the spotlight hasn't been on you. Which must really tear you up.



oh and i wouldn't speak too soon on this one brah :cool:

Stitch on 3/12/2006 at 20:11

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Hi Sypha, I'm here!

I generally agree with most of the naysayers in this thread (especially OnionBob and Vigil), which I'll bet doesn't surprise you in the least. The bit that I read was overwritten and clunky, and your "personal art" defense proves that you're still caught in the same self-indulgent closed feedback loop.

Here's the thing, though: you managed to write a book, and that's absolutely commendable. As awkward as I found some of your prose to be, I did see some talent there and I think you'll develop your craft nicely as long as you open yourself up to constructive criticism. TTLG obviously isn't the right place to do it, even if all the advice in this thread has been sound. Find a fellow writer or join a group and critique each other's work. It'll be an invaluable experience as long as you let go of your ego and are receptive to criticism.

Good luck.

Ko0K on 3/12/2006 at 20:39

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This is just an impression, but so far what I've read makes me feel like I'm wading through someone else's fantasy rather than immerse me in my own. You may want to consider consulting an editor for your future projects. It's difficult for most people to see outside of their own bubble, so it helps to get another perspectives.

Vigil on 3/12/2006 at 20:56

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Sorry Kook, I'm afraid your feedback is irrelevant :(

* Whether or not you got immersed just comes down to your own personal taste and opinion;
* Sypha is happy with the book and he has very high personal standards;
* Some people online have told him his work is good so there can't be much in what you say;
* It's not that he's at all terrified of getting a rejection letter or anything, it's just that submitting work to a professional editor with years of experience would simply have compromised his creative control;
* You haven't yourself paid $1000 to have your work self-published so what could you possibly know;
* A quote from Brett Easton Ellis told him to follow his dreams, and if a successful, well-regarded, widely-published author doesn't care about criticism then why should Sypha?

Did I forget anything? Or have I covered every layer of insulation between Sypha Nadon and the outside world?

Strangeblue on 3/12/2006 at 21:41

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~sigh~ I'm going to regret this....

The most unfortunate thing, Sypha, is that you chose to self-publish rather than risk the feedback from a more traditional publication process while arguing that this is somehow better. I imagine you find this statement a bit of an affront, but bear with me.

I often find your posts amusing in their clueless self-indulgence (though I like AR's better); you demonstrate a spark of fancy, a talent for words, and a weird sort of drive that might make the engine of a pretty good creative career. But you're lazy, self-centered, self-aggrandizing, and defensive the way a lot of insecure, smart, creative people often are. You let yourself off hooks, you whine, and you expect rewards disproportionate to your labor. That's also not uncommon, but it is irritating and it ultimately undermines your potential.

This doesn't mean we all think you should fall off the face of the earth. If you were truly a talentless block of slime, no one would bother to tell you anything constructive or helpful--they'd all tell you to fuck off if they bothered at all. So... there's something under all the crap you sling that makes you worth our while. But is it worth yours? Apparently not.

You bring up Easton-Ellis's statement about style as an argument against work--that's what you did. The excerpt is a good demonstration of poor craftsmanship, not of style. It has very serious craft flaws that have already been pointed out to you--the sort of thing that I'd expect, as an editor, to NEVER see in any professional manuscript. I'm not talking about your story or your "style"--which is still larval and developing, though you may not think so--just the technical structure and function of your language, plot, characters, and dialog. You're old enough and educated enough to know better. The Mary-Sue is just a symptom of the problem--though it's a huge one. Your writing in the excerpt is sloppy. Please, no crying about the fact that it's the first chapter--pros revise first chapters, artists re-work sketches. It's amateur. It's insufficiently-schooled. You think your own liking of the writing or character makes it automatically "good" or "artistic." But, that's self-indulgent because you haven't allowed anyone to approach it with an eye to tempering your literary steel. Avoiding that pain is cowardly of you and stops you from advancing your writing beyond this level.

That's what the traditional publishing and writing processes can give you which you have chosen to avoid: knowledge and tempering. Art is not undisciplined howling in the wilderness and it is not honed without labor or pain.

You have done a lot of work and that's laudable. You've made a commitment in time and money that a lot of people don't bother to get to and that's good, too. You have completed a whole manuscript that may constitute a complete plot with character development--a real story. That's excellent and more than many attain. But you haven't gone through the tempering process, and if you are serious about any creative career, that tempering process is necessary to success. You need to hone your craft--what you've put out in this book is shockingly sloppy and self-indulgent in ways that are not artistically merited--so that art (if there is any) can shine.

Congratulations on the book. Now, go and make the next one better.