Jadon on 29/3/2005 at 23:27
How is the hammer vs crouch thing a bug. in anything at most it's just developer oversite that people would stay crouched when attacked and that the hammerites would just use their regular attack animation as opposed to their overhead chop animation.
But yeah most (if not all) medieval warhammers were at most 10-15 lbs (total) not the mostlikly 20-30 lbs of the hammerites warhammers.
Gestalt on 30/3/2005 at 01:20
I've had this sitting on my hard drive for a while, strangely enough. I put it together pretty quick on the night the editor was released. If there are enough people interested in new weapons, I might consider putting something together for release.
<img src="http://img40.exs.cx/img40/8296/hammer5wq.jpg">
nobody on 30/3/2005 at 01:24
good ideas max I especially like the one about reskinning a guard even though scripting would be easier probably.
anyway to clear up one thing about war hammers. they are a lot lighter than you guys seem to think. this is true of swords too, most people think they should be heavier than they are. I've done medieval armored combat for many years (historical re-enactment) and I've faced and used many different heavy weapons. a typical hammer is only a few pounds in weight. to prove this follow max's link in his last post and look at the hammers they have. here's the advert for the heaviest one I saw right off hand:
"Carried by archers and spearmen, the two-handed war hammer was a devastating weapon for the hand-to-hand combat that followed the initial push of battle. More effective for the foot soldier than the smaller, one-hand war hammers carried by mounted knights, its larger head and long shaft gave tremendous power when swung with both hands. Capable of crushing the stoutest armour and helmets, it saw use in nearly all of the major battles during the Middle Ages. Overall-32 inches * Head-9 inch long, 1 1/8 inches thick * Wt.-3 lbs. 3 oz."
That's right 3 pounds 3 ounces! and that's not just the head either that's the whole thing. if it were heavier no-one would be able to use it as a weapon. a blacksmith's hammer can be much heavier but speaking as a guy who has used one of those too I can tell you there's no WAY you could use one as a weapon effectively. but hey, this is a FANTASY and as such huge warhammers are more than acceptable, they're cool! I just want them to be a real threat.
Jadon, call it what you want to, I don't care if it's not technically a bug but it NEEDS to be fixed whatever it is
Jadon on 30/3/2005 at 03:01
Release it. It's beautiful.
Maximius on 30/3/2005 at 04:18
It may not be a programming bug but it sure as heck is a game design bug. Heres another one, the climbing gloves. Not a bad idea in and of themselves, but the way Garrett uses them its like he's been bitten by a radioactive spider and can suddenly shoot webs from his hands. In the ratman/Kurshok tunnels, I would tease the Kurshok then run from them and leap like a frigging lizard onto the walls, crawling away while they sputtered and cursed. It was LAME. They totally ruined that level for me. They are way too powerful a tool. To use the gloves, it should take garrett a short while to ready himself for the climb, then slowly but carefully he makes his way to where he needs to go. SLOWLY. They need to be limited, even the master thief has to take a second to feel his way. Imagine the tension as you hear the approaching guards, no way out but up, and you have to pick your way up the wall to the concealing shadows, carefully, achingly, as the voices approach. MMmm Thiefy goodness. Instead, we have Peter Fucking Parker.
Maximius on 30/3/2005 at 04:23
Quote Posted by Gestalt
I've had this sitting on my hard drive for a while, strangely enough. I put it together pretty quick on the night the editor was released. If there are enough people interested in new weapons, I might consider putting something together for release.
<img src="http://img40.exs.cx/img40/8296/hammer5wq.jpg">
Im interested in anything new, thanks for the work.
Max
nomad of the pacific on 30/3/2005 at 05:54
Gestalt, that is a cool hammer! :thumb: Please put it up. I can envision an elite hammer guard equiped with that awesome piece of death-dealing artwork! :ebil:
Bho on 30/3/2005 at 06:31
That's really interesting nobody. I know the opening attack you speak of, and in my experiance that only hits you while crouching if you are directly in front of a hammer/kurshok when they become alerted. As far as i can see, this is because of the positioning of the sheath for the hammer and kurshok broadsword, which is over the shoulder. In addition to this, however, both the hammers and kurshok do have downwards swings they can use in the middle of a fight. Unfortunately (or fortunately :) ) they only occur very rarely. I discovered this while doing a crouching walkthrough :) of both the sunken citadel and the clocktower, choosing to confront all kurshok and hammers(not priests) for a front on knife fight.
Oh yeah, i must add that during this time i was using thiefbot to buff up the ai's tactile score to 3.0 from the standard expert level, though i doubt this would've made a difference.
Jadon on 30/3/2005 at 13:01
Quote Posted by Maximius
Some stuff about clmbing gloves.
You know by doing what you just said you're use those gloves as intended. I mean there are two reasons to use them get to new areas and as an alternate escape route. If it was slower then it wouldn't be viable as an escape route. Realistic, no. Working with the gamplay, yes. Its the same thing with rope arrows, surely youv'e used those to get away from enemys in T1/2. Personaly I think the way to counteract the whole climbing away and be immune thing is to have more ranged attack people. I think (if I can remember close to correctly) I saw maybe 4 archers throughout the game in DS. I did see a lot of mages but half the time they were just buffing there allies so they weren't a huge contributer to the battle.
Maximius on 30/3/2005 at 14:18
Quote Posted by Jadon
You know by doing what you just said you're use those gloves as intended. I mean there are two reasons to use them get to new areas and as an alternate escape route. If it was slower then it wouldn't be viable as an escape route. Realistic, no. Working with the gamplay, yes. Its the same thing with rope arrows, surely youv'e used those to get away from enemys in T1/2. Personaly I think the way to counteract the whole climbing away and be immune thing is to have more ranged attack people. I think (if I can remember close to correctly) I saw maybe 4 archers throughout the game in DS. I did see a lot of mages but half the time they were just buffing there allies so they weren't a huge contributer to the battle.
Jadon, the point is they are way too EASY to use. Of course Ive used rope arrows, sometimes switching to them in the midst of a melee, firing off a rope and leaping to safety on it. Its really hard to do, of course, which makes the thrill factor go up about 1000% or so. The climbing gloves should be a tool of Garretts, not a superpower. If those gloves had not been so easy to use, I would have had to CAREFULLY sneak through the Kurshok tunnels. More ranged attacks? Sure, Im all for it, especially the notion of ranged and melee capable AIs. But those gloves need to be toned down. Here is a possible quick fix, the programmers out there can tell me if its feasible. When Garrett uses the gloves, he can only move at CREEP speed. It seems to me that he moves at about walking speed when he is climbing, could that not be changed to his creeping speed. Voila, a minor change and a huge dash of realism is injected into the gameplay. You are welcome to still use them as an escape path, Jadon. Your timing and wits will have to be on point to be successful.
