Agent Monkeysee on 28/2/2006 at 22:46
Quote Posted by Myoldnamebroke
I guess the earlier description of the UK as some kind of knife-oppressing dystopia by an American would lead us to assume you've got much more lax laws on the matter, and if we were repressive then you must be allowed to carry around giant knives o' death.
Hey, man, it's not my fault you took Phydeaux at his word. And there were UKers in this thread making the "why do you need to carry ANY knife around" argument.
In the end do I really NEED to? No, but it's quite a bit more convenient and unlike your crazy little island no one feels the least bit threatened by people carrying around utility knives. Chalk it up to cultural differences, whatever, but I remain convinced people are freaking out over a whole lot of nothing.
But then again we don't have youths chasing people down with knives so maybe it's something in the water.
Scots Taffer on 28/2/2006 at 22:58
Yeah, you guys just have serial-killer inducing water.
Myoldnamebroke on 28/2/2006 at 23:08
I'm not sure we have a fear of utility knives, but we do have a general FEAR.
We've also got a culture, I think unlike the US, of expecting the government to make everything better. But at the same time, we love to hate the government. Doing things like banning knives is part of the attempt to keep up with our perpetual disappointment. I can't think of a better why to express it than SOMETHING MUST BE DONE. The government has to have something showy and hard so it can say definitely that SOMETHING HAS BEEN DONE.
I don't know whether this kind of expectation comes from deep rooted differences in attitude towards government or simply from the fact that we're a small island with a genuinely national media where the central government can and regularly does affect day to day life. That stabbing at the other end of the country really isn't that far away, and it will be reported constantly where you will hear of it, and the institutions that can do something about it are the same ones that are close to you. Or, less fussily: government is a lot closer to the average UK citizen, simply because of scale.
I also suspect a lot of the arguments inevitably put forward in debates like these come from a haughty British reaction to be told what to do by America. We do have restricted rights in these areas, and having this pejoratively pointed out from the US makes us go into full justification mode, showing why these rights must be irrelevant.
Or something.
Naartjie on 28/2/2006 at 23:15
fs, you're all getting waaaaay too excited about this whole issue. Monkeysee I notice was getting particularly moist at one point.
1) The UK is not full of people shitting themselves at the thought of anyone going around carrying anything sharper than a wooden spoon. I own about 3 or so pocket knives (usually with corkscrews and other such useful gubbins on them) which greatly benefit my existence in the realms of letter opening, releasing CDs from that evil cunting cellophane stuff (once claimed, I think by Terry Pratchett, as the most indestructible substance known to man) and sometimes cleaning my toenails.
2) Similarly it is absolutely fine and normal in the eyes of most people to carry a knife for some useful purpose, like the aforementioned Farmer Bob out in the fields, or guys who need them for fishing etc.
3) WHAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE to most people and as it turns out, the law (which I wasn't entirely aware of myself) is to carry things like flick knives, butterfly knives, or anything over 3", which could have no conceivable use outside of your kitchen or work studio or wherever you actually *need* them, other than stabbing someone.
In the US it may be the case that the law encourages people to defend themselves, and in the UK it is the case that the law entrusts that to the police. Which generally works fine for us; knife (and gun) crime is not the biggest issue the police face and it doesn't affect the lives of the vast majority of the population.
And as regards those tricky cultural differences, to carry weapons of any kind in the UK (note weapons, not utility knives) marks you out in the eyes of many as frankly a bit of a dick. Most of the knife and gun enthusiasts I've known over here have been loners. Obviously this isn't true in all countries of the world, as I'm sure people like Phydeuax lead fulfilling and exciting lives as knife enthusiasts.
So what I'm trying to say in a very roundabout and convaluted way is...
...that this crazy little island isn't suffering from paranoid knife-phobia, but rather takes a different legal view from the US as regards carrying blades about the place and that whatever works for one country shouldn't necessarily work for another.
I am now going to clean my toenails.
fs Phydeaux, you did contradict yourself because you mentioned "rights" twice despite claiming it had nothing to do with them
Havvoc on 28/2/2006 at 23:23
Quote Posted by Singing Dancing Moose
Pro-tip: Your LARP group telling you that they are "totally convinced" by your portrayal of Sir Nightraven Vampiros is not a braggable achievement.
Hold your tongue laddie, or I'll drain your veins. :ebil: Not really.
I've never been in a LARP group, mostly 'cause I'm not a good actor (I had to look up LARP to find out what it was >.>). I'm too bashful for that stuff. I prefer writing. Alright, so I did exaggerate about the murderer part... but the vampire part is true! And since vampires are generally murderers, you get the point. I think that mostly stems from my paleness, my dislike for being in the sun, and my strange skin reaction to sunlight. That's just my opinion though. People around here think I'm dangerous because I live in *gasp!* Kentucky, land of the inbreds. I myself am not an inbred (to my knowledge), but my mother did encourage me to date my fifth cousin... an idea which I found to be nauseating. Please laugh at that, or puke, to your heart's content. People like me are few and far between around here, so I'm mostly avoided. I'm sure they think I'm a satanic heathen or something.
As for my previous remarks, I apologize to everyone. I tend to get a little out of hand sometimes, especially when it appeals to my "bad side". Combine that with my lack of emotional control, and boom, I start experiencing irrational thoughts about extreme violence and the like. So for all of my remarks of cutting people up, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. And thanks to all who ridiculed me for it, although that made me quite depressed at the time, I realize my mistake now and I appreciate you trying to point it out (even if that wasn't your intention).
I do carry around a pocket knife though, a (
http://www.swblades.com/coltar15kblack.html) Colt AR 15 K, just in case. You never know when you'll have to cut a box open or one of those tough plastic cords, and the tanto blade on that knife is good for box cutting. I would honestly never hurt anyone with it unless my life or another's life was threatened, and even then I wouldn't "cut 'em up". Probably just a quick nip here and there to disarm them.
For Dia, sorry to mention my private troubles. I've been under a lot of stress recently and that's played on my already imbalanced chemicals, and my emotions have been pretty much in the dumps, thus I'm prone to spouting out my problems whenever I get an opportunity to relieve them a bit. :erg:
So in short, sorry to everyone for being inappropriately strange, I'll try to keep my emotions in check from now on.
And sorry for using this thread for a big-ass apology. :sweat:
Phydeaux on 28/2/2006 at 23:52
Quote Posted by Naartjie
3) WHAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE to most people and as it turns out, the law (which I wasn't entirely aware of myself) is to carry things like flick knives, butterfly knives, or anything over 3", which could have no conceivable use outside of your kitchen or work studio or wherever you actually *need* them, other than stabbing someone.
That's funny, since I've yet to stab anybody with my butterfly or flick knives. I use them like you use any knife. A 3" blade is a 3" blade regardless of how it opens. There's nothing about looking flashy or making a nifty noise that makes a balisong or switchblade more dangerous. In fact, most regular modern folding knives are easier to deploy and open than balis or switchblades.
Although I do have to admit that the stereotypical (
http://www.bladeplay.com/images/italian/frankb13stagdagger.jpg) switchblade is in fact a stabbing weapon, and not terribly useful as a cutting tool. I don't own any like that, but that's more due to the fact that they're usually poorly made (nice ones are
very (
http://www.burnknives1.com/page2hollow.html) expensive). I'd never carry one, since they make poor cutters. Even then, there's nothing about this type of knife that makes it more dangerous than a non-flick knife of equal size.
Quote:
fs Phydeaux, you
did contradict yourself because you mentioned "rights" twice despite claiming it had nothing to do with them
You're the one contridicting himself. I mentioned rights twice because I'm talking about TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Or actually I'm not. I'm talking about oen thing, and you're talking about another, and you're getting them confused.
You can carry a folding non-locking knife with a 2.9" blade, but not one that locks. Why? Beats the fuck out of me. There's lots of people who would prefer to carry the locking knife, because it's safer to use, since there's no chance of the knife closing on their fingers (assuming it's a good knife--I had a locking knife fail on me and close on my index finger--3 stitches and permanent nerve damage). Is the law there because they think the non-locking knife will fold on an attackers fingers when they're stabbing somebody? :confused: I suppose a non-locking knife probably is less apt as a weapon, but I still say it's idiocy to assign criminality to an inatimate object. And obviously, the laws don't prevent muggings with illegal knives.
Agent Monkeysee on 1/3/2006 at 00:05
Quote Posted by Myoldnamebroke
I don't know whether this kind of expectation comes from deep rooted differences in attitude towards government or simply from the fact that we're a small island with a genuinely national media where the central government can and regularly does affect day to day life.
It's something of a cliche but the more I read and study and discuss this stuff the more I think the founding of our respective republics has an enormous cultural influence that holds incredible power over society even 200 years later.
It's still a toss up to me whether the individualistic approach America took is better or worse than the more social consensus flavor most Parliamentary-style Western countries adopted. On the one hand I really wish Americans didn't distrust government so much and there was more national agreement on a role for the public good. On the other hand... Prime Minister Tom Delay.
NeoPendragon on 1/3/2006 at 00:33
Oh sorry, that was you?
Jennie&Tim on 1/3/2006 at 00:57
I carry a very small folding knife with several tooly type bits, which I rarely use. I'd be very upset however, if someone tried to make my machete illegal; I use it for whacking down the brush around here quite a bit. It's a heck of a lot more dangerous than any four inch pocket knife; and any mugger who brandished one would have all my worldly goods at his or her disposal.
Shug on 1/3/2006 at 01:50
Quote Posted by Phydeaux
That's funny, since I've yet to stab anybody with my butterfly or flick knives. I use them like you use any knife. A 3" blade is a 3" blade regardless of how it opens. There's nothing about looking flashy or making a nifty noise that makes a balisong or switchblade more dangerous. In fact, most regular modern folding knives are easier to deploy and open than balis or switchblades.
That's utterly fantastic. Great to hear
Now if you could just explain to the British government why they care if some guy in America has never attacked anybody with a knife greater than 3" in size I'm sure this whole terrible misunderstanding would simply blow right over
