twisty on 8/6/2008 at 08:50
In my opinion, two of the main factors which have resulted in the failure of all Underworld remakes to date is that they have almost all been solo attempts, and remakes that have attempted to recreate an entire game engine and level editor from scratch. If a remake is ever going to succeed, I feel that it will probably come about as a result of group collaboration using an existing engine with a proven and highly supported tool set.
One engine that comes to mind is the Doom 3 engine. It seems perfectly suited to creating the dark, claustrophobic environments of the Underworld games and allows for substantial modification; as can be seen by mods such as the DarkMod.
Digital Nightfall on 8/6/2008 at 14:15
If The Witcher's engine can be changed to 1st person, I think that may be a good bet. It's got the editor!
MustardCat on 8/6/2008 at 23:25
Doom3 would be a good choice. Still a decent amount of work though, recreating the interface and inventory, redoing all the textures, 3D models of all items+characters...
twisty on 9/6/2008 at 03:41
I haven't played around with the Witcher editor but methinks that an Underworld remake would really need to use an engine that was designed for 1st person from the ground up. The Aurora engine has never been used for that afaik. On the plus side however it does have a built-in conversation and inventory system that would be well suited to the Underworld games.
The Doom 3 engine has a suitable renderer that I feel could be used well to capture those dark, claustrophobic Underworld environments that are vital to the feel of the game. Fully agree with MustardCat that it would still be a hell of a lot of work though.
Al_B on 9/6/2008 at 21:24
I would be inclined to suggest that the main reason that remakes haven't worked is because the biggest hurdle with the underworld games is not the graphics - it's the game engine as a whole. Ultimately you have to support:
1. Decent 3d graphics environment including at least basic physics
2. Immersive sound - especially dynamic battle music
3. Independant and group AI mechanics
4. Inventory management including nested storage (e.g. boxes / containers)
5. Scripted converstaion structure with peristant state storage
6. Trade interface
7. Character skill progression mechanics
8. Overall story progression including unlocking certain areas upon trigger events.
Very few remakes that I've seen have concentrated on much more than the first point. The graphics engine is actually the easiest part these days and although the original was revolutionary for its time it was actually the rest of the equation that made the game special.
Would the doom3 engine work? Quite possibly for the first three points although I'd guess that the rest of it would take up 99% of the time if it were to happen.
Renzatic on 9/6/2008 at 22:15
Why not check out one of the open sourced Quake 3 projects? (
http://xreal.sourceforge.net/xrealwiki/ScreenShots) Xreal has come the farthest in terms of graphical updates. I believe it can even read IdTech4 models and whatnot.
Beyond graphics, everything else should be easy to mod provided you have the programming knowledge to back up your ideas. Since it's open source, the sky's the limit on what you can change.
Also, check your PMs.
Al_B on 9/6/2008 at 22:35
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Beyond graphics, everything else should be easy to mod provided you have the programming knowledge to back up your ideas. Since it's open source, the sky's the limit on what you can change.
That's the problem in a nutshell. It's
not the graphics that's the problem - it's implementing all the other factors that are difficult. AI, Scripting, Conversations, trading, etc. if those are easy then go for it -
Implement them first. Once you've done those then look at the graphics, not before.
Renzatic on 9/6/2008 at 23:13
I agree. That's one of the reasons why I'd recommend a good open source engine. The graphics are already there, you just need to bang out a few cool models to inspire you, then go about doing the programming thing.
I've been toying with the idea of remaking bits and pieces of UW myself, mostly to teach myself a little programming. I wanted to make a few neat looking rooms, then go about figuring out how to make a frobbable door. Mostly I planned to do a few of small things slowly and build from there, so I wouldn't overwhelm myself.
Ultimately, if Twisty is serious about this, that's what I recommend he do. Good programmers are few and far between, so if you want to get anything done, you'll have to start things off yourself.
ChickenMcOwnage on 10/6/2008 at 01:59
Quote Posted by Al_B
I would be inclined to suggest that the main reason that remakes haven't worked is because the biggest hurdle with the underworld games is not the graphics - it's the game engine as a whole. Ultimately you have to support...
You may be right, but I think that most of the things on your list aren't that big a deal. The problem I had with my underworld-inspired game was not having any graphics to work with. Even though I'd use placeholders, I knew that down the line I'd have to make some real graphics myself, and I knew that I'm just not good enough.
Back to the interface, I was really happy with mine. It was very similar to Diablo's gui; for example, you hit the 'i' key to bring up the inventory pane, but you could still see what was happening in front of you. When the inventory panel was on the screen, the mouse would control a cursor instead of mouselooking. You can rearrange things easily, even drag items from your equipment/inventory to the left side to throw or drop items. It worked really, really well.
Inline Image:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/KungFuSich/underworld_small.jpgIf I were going to remake UW, I'd use Crystal Space or Ogre3d. You'd want to spend as little time as possible programming the graphics engine, but at the same time you shouldn't be hassled with learning and modifying a commercial game's source. Plus, people will need to own the game.
So twisty, are you thinking of remaking UW?
twisty on 10/6/2008 at 11:19
I am indeed ChickenMcOwnage. In fact, I've been dreaming of doing that very thing for years.
Al_B raises some very valid points about some of the challenges that face any Underworld remake project. Many of these obstacles would need to be addressed early on in the design phase if there is any chance of the project coming to fruition. I do believe that some of these things could be solved by reinterpreting some aspects of the game such as the main UI and trade interface, for example.
In the coming 1-2 months my partner will be working overseas for 3 months and I will have a little more time on my hands than what I currently have. I have been toying with the idea of launching a remake project whilst she is away as this would be an opportune time to do so.
My role in such an operation would be more along the lines of design, project management and some scripting here and there, however. Any serious programming would be best left to a more talented programmer.
