Renzatic on 19/3/2019 at 04:04
Quote Posted by icemann
If this had happened in the US, there'd be a lot of protests but nothing would change.
Yeah, that's the whitewash Cliff Notes version of what happens whenever there's a mass shooting in the US. The reality of a gun debate here is much, much more stupid.
Pyrian on 19/3/2019 at 04:12
Quote Posted by icemann
If this had happened in the US...
"If"? We have a surplus of these sorts of things. Pretty sure this one counts as an export.
catbarf on 19/3/2019 at 04:18
Quote Posted by icemann
I'm completely on the side of free speech as that is what democracy is all about, and we need to be able to debate things rather than just keep them all forbidden where they fester and turn into something far more vile.
I used to feel that unfettered free speech was the right way, but now I'm not so sure. For starters, I don't think there was much outcry against Facebook and Youtube taking down pro-ISIS propaganda- so it seems that most people agree that some form of extremism is off-limits for civil discussion.
And sites like Reddit's The_Donald board, 4chan's /pol/, and 8chan have formed focal points for extremists to build up an echo chamber that feeds itself, and radicalizes vulnerable people. The usual argument I've seen is that if you take those sites down, their inhabitants will just go elsewhere. But there was a (
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/11/study-finds-reddits-controversial-ban-of-its-most-toxic-subreddits-actually-worked/) Georgia Institute of Technology study that found that while there was some migration to other communities, a significant percentage of members of banned communities basically just disappeared. If the study can be extrapolated, then maybe the best solution to extremism really is to stamp it out whenever possible. And, well, Germany's hardline approach to Nazism seems to have worked for them for over half a century.
This is a form of censorship, so there's always a risk it could be abused, either by governments or (IMO more insidiously) by the social media corporations carrying it out. But if that's an unacceptable risk, then we're basically saying that terror attacks committed by extremists are the price we pay for retaining our current attitude to free speech. I'm not convinced anymore that that's a good trade-off.
Starker on 19/3/2019 at 10:22
Since this thread has been derailed already, there's this Youtuber I recently started watching and one of his videos is about precisely that very issue: how the "marketplace of ideas" deals with ideas that are harmful to the marketplace. He lays out how a European country approaches it versus how the US approaches it and the deficiencies of both systems as he sees it. The central point of his video, if there is one, seems to basically be that both free markets and controlled markets can fail.
[video=youtube;FX8Iw37srmY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX8Iw37srmY[/video]
june gloom on 19/3/2019 at 10:46
Quote Posted by SubJeff
I think the guy is a jerk, because of what he said.
But I don't think you should be prejudiced when looking at his response. He didn't know it was an egg. How could he? All he knew is something wet had hit him, that he'd been assaulted, and he stuck out. It could have been acid - we've enough of those attacks recently. It could have been the first of many attacks. After the first hit he strikes again and this time it's simultaneous with the egg boy attempting a punch.
I don't think he did anything particularly wrong. Everyone is going on about oooh look how violent he is. Yeah, tell that to all the acid victims, tell that to all the people that got sucker punched on the second hit. If he gets charged over this then it really is a libtard conspiracy and I'm a liberal.
Jesus Christ check out the galaxy brain over here.
First off, whatever fascists get, they deserve. Getting an egg to the head is like, the lightest possible consequence for being a violent, hateful bigot. Frankly, if they're all so excited for walls we should put 'em up against one, so I'm not exactly fussed that someone decided to humiliate this weenie on live TV and obliterate his career in one fell swoop.
Second off, this is some seriously weak, milquetoast "both-sidesism." I love how "oh my god it could have been acid" is your immediate argument to defend a fashie assaulting someone. Like, you just pulled it straight out of your ass
and managed to perpetuate an Islamophobic stereotype (and you
know it's a stereotype, don't even pretend otherwise) in your defense of a fascist. I hope you in your grand intellect can comprehend exactly why this isn't good optics.
You're not a liberal. You're not even a centrist. You're just intellectually dishonest.
-------
RE: "marketplace of ideas"
Like a lot of lofty-but-meaningless concepts that are frequently upheld by anyone to the right of Kamala Harris, the whole "marketplace of ideas" thing is a bunch of high-minded bunk. All it does is gives a platform to ideas that have no place on the market. Child porn and nuclear weapons are illegal in the public marketplace; why do we allow Nazism and transphobia in the "idea marketplace?" Could it be because the primary proponents of the "marketplace of ideas" are essentially anarcho-capitalist in ideology (though they may reject the label or be unfamiliar with the term) and, if they're not there yet already, are two steps away from being okay with the sale and purchase of "Timmy Wants to go Home: the Movie" and Los Alamos™ brand Instant Parking Lots?
Tony_Tarantula on 19/3/2019 at 23:54
Quote:
Jesus Christ check out the galaxy brain over here.
First off, whatever fascists get, they deserve. Getting an egg to the head is like, the lightest possible consequence for being a violent, hateful bigot. Frankly, if they're all so excited for walls we should put 'em up against one, so I'm not exactly fussed that someone decided to humiliate this weenie on live TV and obliterate his career in one fell swoop.
You're not giving the similarities the credit they deserve. Your rant here is disturbingly similar to the rhetoric of both previous fascist regimes and current 4chan fascists.
Quote:
if they're all so excited for walls we should put 'em up against one
. Are you really so blinkered that you can't see how psychopathic your headspace is?
If you're that blindingly convinced of your own righteousness that you think you need to enforce what's "right" by killing opponents you aren't a warrior for good. You're a dangerous psycho.
Be careful what you wish for. You know how you think people should be legally punished for advocating violence online? Be careful what you wish for because if you got your wish you'd quite possibly be in jail yourself depending on who gets elected.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It wasn't radical Christianity acting as the motive behind the NZ shooting. It's hard to say exactly what the guy believed in, since his manifesto was primarily rage bait bullshit specifically tailored to divide and spur on more violence.
If I had to take a stab at a guess, I'd say he seems more aligned with the #whitegenocide movement.
The manifesto seems to imply pure, unabashed Nihilism. There's a certain segment of the right that's emerged (calling themselves "blackpill") that believe that society is bad it just needs to be destroyed so we can start over and his goal as stated was to destroy society by hastening the advent of a race war.
Renzatic on 20/3/2019 at 00:07
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
You're not giving the similarities the credit they deserve. Your rant here is disturbingly similar to the rhetoric of both previous fascist regimes and current 4chan fascists.
Remember the days when people used to call other people out for the shit they did, instead of navelgazing, thinking that "well, gee shucks guys, if we call him an asshole for being an asshole, doesn't that make us assholes too?"
This isn't the usual endless left vs. right diatribe. This guy openly blamed the victims of a mass shooting for being responsible for their own suffering. He deserves an egg to the head.
Vae on 20/3/2019 at 00:33
By Stalin, let the crackdown begin!...Everybody knows that someone should be able to assault another person if they say things we don't like!...:mad:
That will bring peace on earth, and not civil war!...
We know this, because history tells us so!...
Inline Image:
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/icons/icon15.gifjune gloom on 20/3/2019 at 00:40
Tony of all people calling me a psychopath is pretty funny.
Slasher on 20/3/2019 at 00:59
Fifty people got mowed down but let's not forget the real tragedy here. EGG. ON. HEAD.
