Trance on 28/3/2019 at 23:56
The shooting happened in New Zealand, not Australia, so though the shooter was an Aussie, he didn't have to deal with Australia's gun laws. New Zealand both has and sells semiautomatic firearms similarly to the US. For the moment, anyway.
As for "manufactured chaos", that's only true in the sense that the shooter decided to create the chaos for a deliberate purpose, "manufacturing" it in a way. There's no evidence to suggest the shooter committed the massacre on the orders of anybody else. I agree, though, pure evil would be a phrase I would comfortably use to describe what he did.
bjack on 29/3/2019 at 00:15
Trance, I see it as this way... I live in western Washington. What if a Bolivian came here and gunned down a bunch of Lutherans? WTF? It does not amke sense. This Aussie shooter was as an evil person and likely acted alone. Still, it smells of something more sinister. I am a right of venter person but was fully willing to house Muslim friends after 911 since they were subject to attack at the time. Thankfully no one I know got hurt. Gunning down people is just wrong in so many ways. I should not have to say that. Not to say you would think it was OK. Damn I hate this new world with dissecting every little thing everyone says just to find a fault to hurt one another. This was a case of a mad mad from out of the country doing evil. My question is why he was there and how did he get the guns if he was not a citizen.
Trance on 29/3/2019 at 00:32
I don't feel I should be delving into the man's biography in this thread. What we've mentioned already is about as much exposure as I can stand to give him. (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings#Suspect) This wiki article may serve to provide the answers to your questions. If not, Google may have more for you.
Tocky on 29/3/2019 at 04:51
Just so you know, the right is saying he did it to get people to take guns away from the right. I'm not kidding.
N'Al on 29/3/2019 at 05:38
Quote Posted by Starker
That's interesting. Would you happen to have a link to an example of this?
Sorry, this is more something that's come up in conversation rather than anything I can link to. You'd be surprised* as to how often a conversation can drift to Nazi Germany when you tell others you are German. "Don't mention the war!" 'n all.
In the end, I guess it doesn't really matter. Whether said through malicious intent or sheer ignorance, the statement is dogshit either way.
The biggest irony is that there is a (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany) perfectly good example of Germany being 'progressively left' without the need to distort historical facts.
*not
icemann on 29/3/2019 at 06:17
Quote Posted by Tocky
Just so you know, the right is saying he did it to get people to take guns away from the right. I'm not kidding.
Yeah I've been hearing that crap for the past few days. Over here, the leader + several other members, of the main right wing political party (One Nation) were caught in a undercover operation attempting to gain money from the American Rifle Association and agreed on camera (unknowingly) to attempt to reduce Australia's gun laws. Yeah that's not happening. And she (the leader) claimed that the Port Arthur massacre (which was the basis for all of the major gun law changes here) was a government conspiracy aimed at reducing the gun laws here. What an absolute idiot. She's been ridiculed across the media ever since both of those news bits came out.
Starker on 29/3/2019 at 12:44
Quote Posted by N'Al
Sorry, this is more something that's come up in conversation rather than anything I can link to. You'd be surprised* as to how often a conversation can drift to Nazi Germany when you tell others you are German. "Don't mention the war!" 'n all.
I had no idea that was still a thing, actually. There are Germans that I know whose grandparents hadn't even been born yet when the war ended.
Tony_Tarantula on 29/3/2019 at 15:58
Quote Posted by Trance
He was a believer in the concept of the Great Replacement and white genocide, that they were real things he was fighting to prevent, which was the central pillar of his motive to carry out the attack. He was
specifically trying to drive a wedge through western society, pitting those of "European blood" against everyone else, hoping to start a shooting war between the two sides which he was no doubt confident white people would win. You just can't pretend he doesn't fit in with the right WAY more than the left. THAT is intellectually dishonest.
Basically he was trying to do the same thing Jussie Smollett was except he didn't fake it
Quote:
I would give your words more weight if it weren't for the fact that the only denunciations of violence that I see right-wingers like yourself make refer to what leftist activists perpetrate, and basically ignores the much taller and steeper mountain of harm committed by those on the right. Charlottesville. Pittsburgh. Parkland. Tallahassee. Now Christchurch. All within the span of Trump's presidency, all consequences of the resurgence of the far right in the west, which Trump had a big hand (well, as big as his hands get anyway) in making happen. The body count is so much higher, the blood stains so much bigger on the right side.
You're pushing a narrative that isn't true. The US is NOT in some kind of epidemic of hate violence.. There's an equal number of hate crimes to 20 years ago, and 3,000 fewer hate crimes than there were in 1992.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Wrong.
In all societies, laws are maintained with violence. Mostly it's just the threat of violence. But when you do stuff that is not allowed, you get fined, or go to jail. If you don't pay your fines, somebody will come and take your possessions. With violence if necessary. If you don't show up for your prison sentence, someone will violently grab your ass, and throw you in jail. Not fun. But this happens. I don't see another way to maintain laws. I don't call for extra violence. I don't call for violence against right-wingers. I just suggested that the US makes a law, and maintains that law the normal way, like they maintain other laws. Or do you think it is OK to shoot at black people with marijuana, but not OK to shoot at white people with machine-guns ?
Do not presume. I was advocating in support of Cop Block back in 2013, LONG before it was trendy for issue bandwagon hoppers such as yourself to suddenly start showing up and pretending the care.
The philosophical underpinnings of the US clearly state principles that the burden of proof is on the accuser and that extreme punishments should be reserved for extreme crimes. Murdering people simply for owning something illegal is a fascist policy. That's true regardless of whether it's being applied to weed or guns, and it doesn't suddenly make it not-fascist if it's being applied to people you don't like.
Quote:
But yeah, I've completely had it with right-wing people. Especially US republican politicians. They are dumb, egocentric, egoistical, hypocritical, greedy, vile, nasty, tribal people. Thank God (their god), that there is 6000 kms of water in between us. If only Americans would decide to stay in their own country (it's the 2nd greatest country in the world, after all !). No wars, no tourists, no Americans anywhere outside of North America. That would be great.
If that's what you want
Then stop advocating for Neocon politicians and "deep state" in the US who want MORE wars and invasions. America could use a little bit more "isolationism" in the sense of not being so eager to try to push the rest of the planet around: it would be good for both the US and everywhere else. Trump's biggest selling points ( anti-immigration, anti free-trade, anti-war) were all ones that would have helped make what you wrote happen.
Quote:
I think you are not very smart.
Where would you wanna go ?
I see 2 options for you:
1) Somewhere, another country, where they welcome you. But that means the people there don't mind immigration. And welcome foreigners and outsiders. That means they are probably leftwingers. Oh no. You don't wanna live amongst libruls, do you ?
2) Somewhere, another country, where the people are just like you. Rightwingers. Conservatives. But that means they won't like outsiders and foreigners. You won't be welcome there.
You got nowhere to go.
Please stay with your Republican friends in the US. (The US is still a Republican country. Rightwing in its core. It is the most capitalist, non-socialist, non-communists, most crypto-fasicst nation in the world). You belong in the US. You fit in the US. You are meant to be in the US. Please stay there.
"Herp Durr, so stupid Trump voter just doesn't want to live near immigrants! He hasn't actually thought about it".
Actually...I have. A LOT more than you have. Nevermind that you're just making the same point twice basically. You also don't seem to understanding anything about the US. I assure that the reality of actually living in both large cities and rural areas is very, very, different from what you see on cable news (as it is for most places in the world).
Point 1) WRONG. What I want is to live in a high trust society that generally adheres to the non-aggression principal. Unlike you I've actually been around the block and lived in a couple of different places. I don't really give a shit about "libruls". Racially homogenous and "welcoming of immigrants"/vice versa means nothing. I've been to third world countries that were racially and culturally homogenous. However it was also composed of tribes that generally hated each other to where bombings/shootings happened multiple times every day and the culture was one of "steal everything that's not nailed down". Doesn't mean shit.
The problem isn't "libruls". In fact I fail to see what's liberal about advocating wholesale murder of political opposition the way many on the American left do. I've even tried posting on some left wing Facebook groups advocating murdering conservatives to see what reaction I'd get and I was stunned both by the violent rhetoric I could get away with as well as how many people agreed with the sentiment and openly supported it.
It's more a practical matter of...ya know....
Not living next to people who want to kill youPoint 2)
That's a practical consideration. It would be utterly idiotic to move to South America where people are leading rallies where they chant "Kill the Boer". It would also be stupid to move to China where the Ping regime is making life extremely difficult for foreigners attempting to integrate into the culture there (not that I expect you to know the first thing about what's actually happening in China).
A lot of places aren't "hostile to immigrants" but just expect you to bring a viable skillset, learn the language, and obey local customs and laws. That's not an unreasonable demand and the societies I have in mind (both in and outside of the US) generally have both that and are the kind of places where people feel comfortable keeping their doors unlocked at night.
Do you understand the difference between a high trust and low trust society? That's a good way of demarcating it once you understand the concept.
Quote:
Tony should move to the Netherlands.
Last time I was there, there were fully geared up soldiers with body armor and machine guns on every block and large groups of men standing around in groups aggressively leering at any woman who walked near them.
Hard pass.
N'Al on 29/3/2019 at 18:05
Quote Posted by Starker
I had no idea that was still a thing, actually. There are Germans that I know whose grandparents hadn't even been born yet when the war ended.
Eh, it's usually meant in jest, just a bit o' bants. I've grown enough of a thick skin so it doesn't bother me.
Which is odd, seeing as I'm such an oversensitive libtard snowflake...
