ZylonBane on 25/9/2018 at 04:04
Quote Posted by Hitokiri-san
I don't know about you guys, but I really love to immerse myself into a game, especially when it's Thief. However, somethings like the guard's AI can break that immersion. Would It be possible to make said AI more realistic?
Oh boy, it's been a while since we've had one of these threads.
Everything you list would be trivial for an AI programmer to implement. Everything you list was
intentionally not implemented. Why? Because AI are not actually supposed to be realistic. They're supposed to be fun to play against. If Thief had human-level AI, Garrett would be hunted down and murdered 99% of the time. So the AI's senses are just acute enough to provide a somewhat realistic-feeling challenge, but they're also forgetful and unobservant in all the ways necessary to make Thief not suck as a game.
Hitokiri-san on 26/9/2018 at 23:06
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Oh boy, it's been a while since we've had one of these threads.
Everything you list would be trivial for an AI programmer to implement. Everything you list was
intentionally not implemented. Why? Because AI are not actually supposed to be realistic. They're supposed to be fun to play against. If Thief had human-level AI, Garrett would be hunted down and murdered 99% of the time. So the AI's senses are just acute enough to provide a somewhat realistic-feeling challenge, but they're also forgetful and unobservant in all the ways necessary to make Thief not suck as a game.
I don't think the features I mentioned would be too game-breaking to be implemented, and in no way would suddenly turn the AI human-like. I mean, don't the Guards already relight gas-lamps? Making them relight regular torches and electric lights wouldn't make much of a difference, even if they're more prominent. The only thing that might be game-breaking is the doors thing. I'd just like to make the game a bit more challenging, not "Ultimate Difficulty" hard, but just hard enough to give the game a new spin without taking away the fun factor.
pukey brunster on 26/9/2018 at 23:56
The AI in TDP/TG/T2, .. leave much to be desired.
Hitokiri-san, I agree that the AI in the OM's actually break immersion in some ways, if that is what you are saying, both literally and visually. When creating FM's it is frustrating at times because I feel it patronizes the player. It's a hard balance, trying to create a new game, in twenty-years-later times. I suppose one of the challenges is trying to strike a balance between the two, and trying to tell a good story.
Zylon Bane, I leave it to you to correct any spelling or grammar errors, or logic, if that is the case.
vfig on 27/9/2018 at 02:14
This starts to move more into Editor's Guild territory, but... you could create a 'hard mode' DML file that implements a bunch of this stuff, that players could drop into their Thief dbmods folder and have it automatically loaded for any missions they play, without having to modify any gamesys or mission files at all.
Thief 2's SecurityDoor script makes a door suspicious so guards will notice if it's open (used in the Bank for the security room doors at least; I don't know if it's used elsewhere in T2.) If you want to have this apply to all doors, your DML file could add this script onto the Door archetype for example.
Similarly, you might be able to use the WatchMe script and watch link defaults with a pseudoscript to make the AI send a TurnOn message to a torch, to make AIs relight torches if they notice they've been doused. This is quite a bit more complicated though, and may not easily be possible to add with just a DML file.
Lots of stuff is possible, but to go from an idea to having this happen is going to need you to fire up Dromed and develop the behaviours you want, then create such a DML.
downwinder on 28/9/2018 at 03:02
one thing i will give credit to a.i. for is there ability to shoot arrows and hit a good % by how they shoot ahead
a great way to see this is to rewatch the argument the 2 sets of guards have about lady van vernon just save before you trigger conversation and the results are random,sometime they are amazing and something it can take a while for them to get hits,one time had a run where both sets of guards all died,last 2 on each side did a double hit and both died,probaly the best results as its so amazing to think of the factors involved to get that ending
and yes i found out about the block ability where they don't shoot ,but i never use it
some1stoleit on 28/9/2018 at 12:16
Everything you mentioned is a feature in the Dark Mod if you didn't know already. But even then the last two points are based on the authors allowing NPCs to relight torches or making certain doors suspicious if open. I played an FM where NPCs would turn on light switches you turned off, it was one of the Thief Classic Experiance ones, one inspired by Baffords Manor. Also I beleive that if you douse a torch when an NPC is too close they do get a bit suspicious, although if i'm not imagining, it it's a not a very punishing mistake.
pukey brunster on 4/10/2018 at 07:08
True, and good point, but there is where I agree with ZB. If that were done, we'd be creating a new game altogether. And one less intelligent, ironically.
The point is story, the feel of it, not AI realistics or logistics. The OM's, in all their wonkiness, captured it. I think that's how this community has continued to grow and thrive, because this particular group of people are generally smart, and many smart and creative people who both play and make missions keep wanting to experience it
AluminumHaste on 2/11/2018 at 18:45
Quote Posted by Hitokiri-san
Hey there!
I don't know about you guys, but I really love to immerse myself into a game, especially when it's Thief. However, somethings like the guard's AI can break that immersion. Would It be possible to make said AI more realistic?
For example:
* NPCs get suspicious when a light is put out when they're right next to them (same would happen with light switches)
* NPCs relight torches that have been put out (same with light switches)
* NPCs get suspicious when they find that a door that was previously closed was is wide open
Those things were all added to The Dark Mod.
