RyushiBlade on 5/6/2003 at 07:27

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So I talked to Vivec again because I was bored. And I was wondering a few things. And yeah, there are spoilers ahead.

First: Vivec says Dagoth Ur was 'constructing' a new god, Akulakhan. Does he mean constructing a machine with godly powers? Or would the power of the Heart of Lorkhan make the actual machine real?

Was the Nerevar murdered, as some books say? Or was he mortally wounded as other books say?

Why does Vivec say killing Nerevar a mistake (which then raises the question, did Nerevar really die from his wounds?)? What was it he could have done then that Vivec, Sotha Sil and Almalexia couldn't? And why, if Nerevar could kill Dagoth Ur, was he killed so easily by the Tribunal, if that is the case?

If this question does indeed have an answer, what happened to the Dwarves? Because of the Dwemer Ruin below Mournhold, I'm led to believe the Dwemer lived all across Tamriel. How could they gather all those Dwarves in one place? I read a book about how the Dwemer were able to signal others over vast expanses of land (either with technology or magic) but to gather all the Dwarves on the continent in one place, and have every Dwarf, except one, slaughtered?

'The Battle of Red Mountain, and the Rise and Fall of the Tribunal' says Kagrenac turned his tools upon the heart (and what was he doing? He couldn't have been trying to destroy it) and all the Dwemer suddenly disappeared. This may answer my question above, but then, I wonder, why did this happen?

And again... another version says that the Dwemer became immortal.

And now onto the false gods. After less than a second of hesitation I discover that... well, most have gone insane. Dagoth Ur went immediatly before even becoming a god, Almalexia soon began to walk a dark path and Sotha Sil withdrew into his clockwork city. Nerevar and Vivec seem to be the only ones who kept their sanity (Nerevar because he died and was reincarnated.) Which isn't a question... just something I'd like to point out. I wonder if Vivec will go insane?

My last question is one that I have thought about for a very long time... Why doesn't the Ministry of Truth fall when Vivec is killed? Heh.

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I don't pay much attention to the details in plots... but this one got me interested. I'm afraid I missed out on a lot of these answers. Some of the questions aren't crafted very well, and some might be considered stupid. I've tried to find answers to these questions in as little time as I have and I still need to read more books from my library (*gasp* Could I possibly have more answers on the dissapearance of the Dwarves?) But if you wish to ignore all the questions but one, I'd like to find out if anyone knows how the Dwarves disappeared? Or, in the case of one story, where they went? The Outer Realms? Oblivion?

They should make an expansion where the Dwarves return... or you're set back in time (that would really clear up a lot of questions.) It would be pretty cool... and if you kill anyone you're not supposed to then you would automatically die... because the future would be altered and you wouldn't exist... heh... Um, again, just ignore my ramblings on this expansion idea.

Exile on 5/6/2003 at 08:29

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First: Vivec says Dagoth Ur was 'constructing' a new god, Akulakhan. Does he mean constructing a machine with godly powers? Or would the power of the Heart of Lorkhan make the actual machine real?

I'd say the latter. However, I don't exactly know the motivation that he or the Dwemer had for this, because Lorkhan was the most despised of Aedra to the Elves. But, a deity is a deity, I suppose...

Was the Nerevar murdered, as some books say? Or was he mortally wounded as other books say?

Depends on wether you trust Vivec enough to believe him, um, er... it.

Why does Vivec say killing Nerevar a mistake (which then raises the question, did Nerevar really die from his wounds?)? What was it he could have done then that Vivec, Sotha Sil and Almalexia couldn't? And why, if Nerevar could kill Dagoth Ur, was he killed so easily by the Tribunal, if that is the case?

Could you get a quote of where Vivec said that from CS?

If this question does indeed have an answer, what happened to the Dwarves? Because of the Dwemer Ruin below Mournhold, I'm led to believe the Dwemer lived all across Tamriel. How could they gather all those Dwarves in one place? I read a book about how the Dwemer were able to signal others over vast expanses of land (either with technology or magic) but to gather all the Dwarves on the continent in one place, and have every Dwarf, except one, slaughtered?

They weren't necessarily slaughtered, nor were they necessarily in one place. Certainly, there was a great number of Dwarves there to fight, but if they really were across Tamriel, and possibly Atmora, Akavir, and other continents, logic would dictate that they still kept their holdings in those regions. I suppose that if you were to bring the books "The Egg of Time," "Hanging Gardens," and "Divine Metaphysics" to someone who could translate Altmeri well enough, you could get a good conclusion. IIRC, this is part of the "Disappearance of the Dwarves" quest for the Mage's Guild. However, it's fairly certain that their disappearance was caused by their connection to the "Heart Bone" (Lorkhan's Heart) and that their disappearance at the time of the battle was a coincidence, or possibly some sort of Divine Intervention, and they were not simply slaughtered. Bagarn still has the distinct possibility of actually not being a Dwarf at all, but simply a deranged Corprus beast with an unhealthy knowledge of the Dwemer language. If you look at the Dwarven Spectres and Bagarn, you don't see much of a resemblance. However, there is also the possibility that he really is a Dwarf and the Corprus took away his connection to the "Heart Bone," and replaced it with the similar charachteristics of Corprus disease.

'The Battle of Red Mountain, and the Rise and Fall of the Tribunal' says Kagrenac turned his tools upon the heart (and what was he doing? He couldn't have been trying to destroy it) and all the Dwemer suddenly disappeared. This may answer my question above, but then, I wonder, why did this happen?

I dunno. Maybe he was trying to give extra power to the troops surrounding the area, but instead accidentally put in too much or stuck his finger in the Aorta and... boom.

And again... another version says that the Dwemer became immortal.

Perhaps they did. In another plane of existence. Maybe TES4 will shed some light on this, at least wether or not they went to Oblivion. After all, the title's name *IS* Oblivion, isn't it?

And now onto the false gods. After less than a second of hesitation I discover that... well, most have gone insane. Dagoth Ur went immediatly before even becoming a god, Almalexia soon began to walk a dark path and Sotha Sil withdrew into his clockwork city. Nerevar and Vivec seem to be the only ones who kept their sanity (Nerevar because he died and was reincarnated.) Which isn't a question... just something I'd like to point out. I wonder if Vivec will go insane?

When you speak to him, you see the stress sort of bearing down on him. Also, he barely converses with anyone besides the Archcanon. Also, who's to say that Sotha Sil was insane? Oh, and Nerevar was not turned into a deity. He obviously died before that point.

My last question is one that I have thought about for a very long time... Why doesn't the Ministry of Truth fall when Vivec is killed? Heh.

Thanks for finally posting an obvious question! The case would be similar to the end of Tribunal. Nobody would know he's dead, and if you said so, nobody would believe you. Simple as that. In fact, if you have completed Tribunal and killed Vivec, you can say that you have killed Vivec and they'll just stare at you in disbelief.

The Outer Realms?

Huh?

They should make an expansion where the Dwarves return... or you're set back in time (that would really clear up a lot of questions.) It would be pretty cool...

No, no it would not. You should've stopped this post earlier.

and if you kill anyone you're not supposed to then you would automatically die...

Okay, now that's just stupid.

because the future would be altered and you wouldn't exist... heh... Um, again, just ignore my ramblings on this.

Something tells me that I'll be paying much less attention to anything that you post below a broken line from now on.

Oh, and the books can be found by asking the Fighter's Guild informant (Vodinus Nuccinus, IIRC) about "Dwemer Sites" and doing the small quest involved. The Egg of Time is in Mzuleft. Divine Metaphysics is in Bethamez, a Dwemer ruin below the Eggmine in Gnisis. Just enter through the underground stream or get a pass from the village Hetman and talk to the guard outside for a key. If you're in the Legion, he'll give you the key out of trust. Ignore the Orc in the lower chamber, enter the ruin, and grab the book. The book should be visible right as you enter, on a table.

RyushiBlade on 5/6/2003 at 08:46

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Thanks Striker. ... And Exile too I guess -.-' Something tells me I won't be paying much attention to anything you say from now on, lol. I know all about the quests involving the Dissapearance of the Dwarves, but none of them give you a good, solid answer. And I've already got the three books...



Yeah, but he's pretty much a god now. He has godly powers, he's immune to all disease and he's ageless (I think?)

And I'm ashamed at you Exile! You don't know what the Outer Realms are? The Daedra gods speak of them, especially... Malacath I think? Twice (once from a quest for an artifact, twice if you decide to become a vampre) he asks you to kill someone, so their soul can be banished to the 'Outer Realm' where he can deal with them. Not sure if Oblivion is the same as the Outer Realm...

And why would a game set in Tamriel's past be stupid? Maybe not an expansion, but instead a seperate game. TES4... Or TES0. *shrugs*

Striker on 6/6/2003 at 00:42

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Exile: This isn't the first time you have reacted negativly to something someone has said (Ryushi in particular). In general I take a fairly relaxed approach to moderating the forums, but your actions are causing some concern - not only with me, but with other members of the forum. Consider this a warning - if you keep up with this behaviour, I'll have no option but to perform a more drastic action than editing your posts.

-Striker

Exile on 8/6/2003 at 17:58

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he made Dagoth go mad with the tools

How so? The most logical explanation is that Dagoth Ur wasn't corrupted by Kagrenac's Tools or his proximity to the "Heart Bone," but he was simply, in lack of a better word, greedy and self-absorbed.

basically I think it was Kagnerac' evil plan to leave the tools in Nerevar's possession and for Nerevar to leave them in Dagoth's protection so Kagnerac could have Dagoth do his evil biddin...anyway that's what I think

Kagrenac's plan was, most likely, to make the Dwemer invulnerable to Chimer attacks and create a champion that the Chimer could understand as powerful that could be controlled by the familiar sources of power within Dwemer culture -- notably, craftsmen like himself. Not to create a dark cult that tears off its skin and makes... artifact Chitin armor and weapons... in service to eight pale lizards with rotting pumpkins on their head.

I definitely think that Kagrenac was the evil behind everything.

I disagree. The evil that occured there wasn't Kagrenac at all -- if anything, he was doing the right thing by extending the lifetime of his civilization. The only evil that took place in that battle was the ignorance and racism of the Chimer in general, and the added stupidity of Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil.