Matthew on 5/2/2009 at 12:43

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And THAT is the real reason why it took so long to get him a skull-gun too. Had to run it past the patent attorneys and pay out all the licence fees.

René on 5/2/2009 at 20:25

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^^ Yay! Thank you Mister Magazine guy who wrote the game would have that even though though eveyone in the room was told it was an old concept and would not be appearing in the game. :thumb:

There are some controversial changes for old time gamers but hopefully you'll ultimately find more to like than dislike. To me personally, even with the changes, I'm glad it shares enough similarities with DX1...Cyberpunk, conspiracy, action/rpg, multi solutions, yadda yadda yadda. Don't worry about the pacing either. We have a build where you can play for about 45 minutes before having to draw your gun. So it's not Gears of War!

René on 5/2/2009 at 20:48

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That's a good point actually, and you're completely right. You don't have to draw your gun there. I was just trying to show that you can wander around to your heart's content doing other little things (purposefuly vague!) for 45 minutes before you even needed to consider drawing a gun. Better? :D

Papy on 5/2/2009 at 22:32

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How about saying it is a mini-game instead of saying it is "well beyond" it?



I think Invisible War was overall an OK game. I certainly don't regret buying it. I loved BioShock. With Vita-Chambers I think this game is an utter piece of crap not even worth the time to install it, but with Vita-Chambers deactivated AND playing with no saves (except for the automatic saves between levels), then this game shines. I also loved Thief 3. The third person view was a very bad idea, but I never used it and, overall, I was able to ignore its flaws (mainly the city).

I'm not saying I won't like Deus Ex 3 as a game (that is if I buy it), but I don't see how it could be define as another Deus Ex. I have played games with regenerative health, I have play games with cover system (actually both elements were in a single game) and I know the effect of those two elements just made the game extremely boring to me. I just couldn't bring myself to be interested, no matter how "cool" the rest of the game was (exactly like BioShock with Vita-Chambers). Even if, somehow, Eidos is able to implement those new feature in a way that does not completely destroy the gameplay, I don't see how we could qualify that gameplay as similar as Deus Ex.

I know you think all those differences are just details, but if there's one thing Invisible War can show, it is that a very small change can have a big consequence. Let's take for example the fact that there was no more skills with Invisible War. If we go beyond superficial aspects, the gameplay element of skills was still there, it just had a different presentation. Instead of augmentations and skills, it was active and passive biomods. In fact, some could even say using passive biomods was a better presentation because it gave an in-game explanation for having an ability magically increase. Unfortunately, there was an "insignificant" difference which lead an unsuspected consequence. Because of this system, all passive biomods had the same resources cost. In comparison, with Deus Ex, some skills needed more points to upgrade. Generally, the more useful a skill, the more it cost. As we got skill points by small amounts, the consequence was we could get in a situation where we could upgrade a somewhat less useful skill immediately, making the game a bit easier now, or we could wait, deal with the frustration a bit longer, and have a more useful upgrade a bit later. This lead to a significant dilemma. That added dilemma simply didn't exist with Invisible War and because of that I have no problem saying Invisible War "dumbed down".

In a way, the same could be said about most changes found in Invisble War... as well as BioShock. I believe it wouldn't take much to make a System Shock out of BioShock because both games are incredebly similar. The problem is some "small" changes had the consequence to also completely change the way we play the game. BioShock looks like System Shock 2, but it plays in a completely different manner.



No, it's not the synthesis of those elements, it was another element which produced this spark : Deus Ex was not afraid to say "no" to the player. The result was we didn't notice all its flaws while playing because we had no choice but to concentrate on the gameplay.

Ostriig on 6/2/2009 at 01:18

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Quite so, and it's the reason I've been defending the game so far against silly prophecies of it being shit for no other reason than being different. The issue at hand just now, however, is that most of us would prefer it if a game bearing the title "Deus Ex" actually was a Deus Ex. vH is not too far off, if you expect a good cyberpunk FPS/RPG hybrid, you stand a good chance of getting it, but if you expect a long overdue sequel to DX, well... it gets complicated.


Stop snorting paint thinner.