Modding Tools: The Item that will make or Break "Thief".

Judith on 9/4/2013 at 09:03

Quote Posted by Arcturus_TDM

Well, visible geometry was made in Blender. Monster clipping and other things had to be done in Radiant. Only two vertex colors are possible, so one mesh can have only two materials mixed. But one model can have multiple layers. Here's a link to my other experiment. Walls have mixed materials: (http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/13343-blender-261-export-to-map/page__view__findpost__p__301406)

Shots from that thread look much better IMO, this is more like Oblivion art style with higher-res textures. The only thing that is worrying is the framerate. Not sure what seem to be the problem, the number of polygons on a single mesh, the lightning or something else.

Melan on 9/4/2013 at 09:09

Looks nice, but... How many full-length missions relying on this model-based style have been completed?

Judith on 9/4/2013 at 09:36

I guess it might the problem — this level of visual quality shouldn't really be any exception to the rule, it's pretty standard. Actually I'd like to see more modular approach and nice baked shadows and shapes :)

Melan on 9/4/2013 at 09:57

FWIW, it's not a standard if it isn't being followed outside the odd tech demo. :erg:

Judith on 9/4/2013 at 10:15

I meant not standard for the particular mod or game only, since it's not really healthy to see it like that, but for the state and quality of modeling/mapping/designing today, as a whole.

I think it's always better when modders for particular game are up to date with gaming, since they have a source of inspiration and ideas to borrow from. Whether it's amateur or semi-pro and pro level, it's a bit like in medicine: you need to have that willingness to learn almost every day, as in a year or two half of your knowledge is obsolete.

zacharias on 9/4/2013 at 11:50

For me, the central issue is that all the pretty static meshes in the world don't make a level any more fun to play. They arguably make it more immersive and such, that's cool and all but it's not quite the same thing as fun. So I think that's why DromEd is so popular. Easy brushwork, fun gameplay, levels that can be done in months rather than years.

And I say that as someone who is very good indeed with 3ds Max, thanks very much (I love these assumptions flying around that people who use DromEd can't model in proper programs..:p )

Anyway that's the hobbyists, as i see it.

For those looking to get into the industry, they can go nuts making a level look awesome with loads of custom stuff. But most adults would want to be paid for that level of work/time investment, so I imagine it'll mostly be prospective industry people making current gen stuff in the future. The question of whether the industry is even worth getting into (average to poor pay and conditions, mostly shitty projects, and redundancy only a failed project away) is another thread..

Arcturus_TDM on 9/4/2013 at 22:38

Quote Posted by Judith

The only thing that is worrying is the framerate. Not sure what seem to be the problem, the number of polygons on a single mesh, the lightning or something else.

Are you referring to this video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErA4GDzViR0) or TDM in general? Or my map? There's lots of animated grass in the video. Darkmod has LOD but only with static models. Animated models can't be switched to lower poly hence the low performance in that map.

I don't expect fms to have visuals on par with modern games. High poly modeling and baking textures, making custom textures do take a lot of time. But even without those things 3d editors have certain advantages over bsp and patches. I made a very simple model, a bit too simple actually, but I didn't want to spend too much time on it. I hope it shows what I mean:
[video=youtube;E5FALO9HB7U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5FALO9HB7U&feature=youtu.be[/video]

jtr7 on 9/4/2013 at 23:00

So, if entire sections of maps can be single meshes, how does one tweak it after playtesting? How easy is it to refine a map like that?

demagogue on 9/4/2013 at 23:09

Meshes are often architecture features, like the siding on walls, or like pillars and walls... If you need to open up a hallway or adjust something, it's not impossible. Edit: Or if it is a whole building (I should have watched the video before I posted!), it's probably not for gameplay, so you'd just move it altogether.

Or, you know, if you have to, you go back into Blender and move the windows or thin it down some.

Judith on 9/4/2013 at 23:28

Quote Posted by Arcturus_TDM

Are you referring to this video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErA4GDzViR0) or TDM in general? Or my map? There's lots of animated grass in the video.

In the thread there was something about 35 fps in that tower, which is not that much. But I guess this was because there were no proper optimisations and everything was rendered by the engine, inside the tower or not?