Modding Tools: The Item that will make or Break "Thief".

thiefinthedark on 7/4/2013 at 22:11

Let's be honest here. Despite out varied opinions on what made the original games amazing, there is only one reason they have retained the fanbase and community they have today:
Dromed.

For a time, the Thief modding community was one of the largest in any game ever published. We've released, what, 500 custom missions for the game? Hell, T2X is an entire campaign in every aspect, right down to the cutscenes. Dromed is even responsible for more than a handful of people starting a career in the industry today.

So they've canned SR, they've changed a hell of a lot. The thing that will make or break this game though is whether it ships with a robust and powerful editing suite which allows us to expand upon it to our hearts desire. Or whether they decide to lock it down completely as many modern games do, denying players the ability to add any content that isn't contained within paid DLC or which might clash with the teams "Creative Vision".

This, this is the one thing that we need to be unified as a community about. One voice, no squabbles, There Must Be Modding Tools.

skacky on 7/4/2013 at 22:19

Most games are remembered because of their incredible fan-bases, that's true. You have games like Doom where maps and mods are still being made today (most of them are bloody amazing), Quake is still quite active with a new awesome editor having been released very recently, etc.
To be honest, I have 0 hopes of seeing a SDK for Thief. Getting SDKs released is a pain nowadays, and developers prefer the now common DLC practice so they are the only creators and you have to pay for new maps. I'd like to be proven wrong, however.

SeriousCallersOnly on 7/4/2013 at 22:29

Not a chance - this is true 'next-gen' now. Full of licensed middleware and no possibility of source or editors.

:joke:
On you that is.

Briareos H on 7/4/2013 at 22:32

I have no doubt they are aware of the situation with level editing and the fact it's because of DromEd there's such a cult following and high demand for Thief; and the indirect reason why they're making a new game.

But it requires a lot of dedication and continued vision from someone higher up to decide that yes, an editor will be released. Unlike licencing issues, the technical matters can always be worked around, especially with such a flexible engine. It's one of the things which will show whether they get Thief or not and, indeed, it is absolutely necessary for continued support of the "brand" by the fan base.

SubJeff on 7/4/2013 at 22:34

I wish you'd change that ridiculous title. This isn't what is going to make or break Thief.

I will say that I do hope there are modding tools available though. It's not essential but it would be very nice, however unlikely (and it is unlikely) that will be.

demagogue on 7/4/2013 at 22:39

He's right. Even if they wanted to release an SDK, the sheer amount of licensed middleware makes it hard to imagine being possible. Remember that the Dark Engine (Dromed) was LGS's own in-house engine, and it didn't need any external parts, which made it rather easy to release the editor. The TDS engine was also built enough in-house (notoriously) to make it possible to release; and even then that took a mighty push. But for game engines in this era, we may be too far over the crest of effort it takes to push for a release. Anyway, I can't think of any other Eidos or Square Enix game that came out with an editor lately (although I'm not thinking about it very hard). That said, I'd be happy if it did come out of course.

On the bright side, Dark Mod is set to go standalone hopefully by the end of the year, it's open source, and the engine can push 100,000s of polys as well as any engine today. It's not the same, of course; it doesn't have Garrett. But the gameplay is respectfully old-school and it was made by fans out of sheer love for the series & our FMs.

I personally see the future of FM making to be a nice balance of T2 and TDM FMs coming out into the indefinite future, and I have to admit I'm ok with that.

sterlino on 7/4/2013 at 22:41

if they sell an editor i will be the first to buy it.

quick and dirty.

so think about it Eidos Montreal.. :sly:

SubJeff on 7/4/2013 at 22:46

That's fine dema, and I don't want to take away from T2 or TDM, but it's not the same.

Thief is going to be a true next gen game and we've already heard about the many of the new fog, light, fire and water effects that won't be possible in anything else. Its a shame that developers will have a hard time releasing an editor because given the known skill and dedication of this fanbase they must realise that one way to keep the game in the public eye is to have a good mod/mission machine.

I reckon that if it does well we'll have a sequel and an editor would be very good for that.

Renzatic on 7/4/2013 at 23:16

Quote Posted by skacky

Getting SDKs released is a pain nowadays...

This is true.

Quote:

and developers prefer the now common DLC practice so they are the only creators and you have to pay for new maps. I'd like to be proven wrong, however.

This? Not so much. It's one of those cozy assumptions some people make. There's no proof that developers nix SDK's to increase their DLC sales. Just look at Bethesda, who releases their modding tools shortly after the release of a new TES game, yet still makes a small fortune on DLCs.

As for it happening for Thief 4, I think the guy's "ah...eh...er...I don't think I can answer that" response is pretty telling. I don't think they're opposed to the idea, but they're not going to make any promises until they know for a fact whether they can or not. We know it uses a "heavily modified" version of the UDK, and that alone makes it a slight possibility. It all depends on just how heavily modified it is. If it uses inhouse tech or middleware. What middleware they used if it's the latter rather than the former. How tightly knit into the code said middleware is. If they can release it in a working state without requiring an extra year or two of coding. With so many variables and pressure from on high, there's no way a developer can tell if they're going to release one or not until they're about ready to plop it into your lap.

I'd say that Thief 4 has a better chance of seeing one than most games, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

New Horizon on 7/4/2013 at 23:17

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Thief is going to be a true next gen game and we've already heard about the many of the new fog, light, fire and water effects that won't be possible in anything else.

Won't they? Idtech 4 is open source now and there is nothing stopping anyone from bringing the renderer up to modern standards...there has already been work done on that within the idtech modding community. The TDM engine is even improved over the vanilla D3 engine in terms of graphics. It's only a matter of time really.