desmasic on 27/1/2006 at 22:59
Nice. I just finished the game, enjoyed it more than ThiefTDP itself. So yeah, I have some experience with UnrealEd (DeusEx, UT2k4, SWAT4), so I am now downloading EnhanceED to work on.
BTW, how big will the patch be to make mods made on this Ed playable by others? Also, are there going to be some 'other' fixes related to gameplay or just changes to make EeD maps compatible with T3 ?
Another thing. Though I like the changes mentioned (edible foods is a welcome one since I missed TTDP like option of healing without potions), can you please explain what exactly are the "Wall hug bug" and "Player Movement" fixes for? I dunno, I never experienced any problems with both when I played the game :confused:
Anyways, good job with it, downloading the installer now.
SubJeff on 28/1/2006 at 00:39
Wall hug bug = guards will not notice you even if they bump into you whilst you are wallhugging or something.
Movement fixes are to make it more like T1 and 2 I think.
New Horizon on 28/1/2006 at 00:50
Yeah, the wall hugging bug was an error in the game code. It caused the lightgem to drop off into negative numbers when the player went into wall hug mode in rooms with little light. Basically, to compensate for this, I just made the bonus for wall hugging less than what it was set in the gamesys. Basically, it was set to give the player the same bonus as they would get from crouching, but with the bug...it was like 10 times that. I believe I had to drop it from -1.0, to -0.05 to reach the correct calculation. Crazy stuff.
The movement tweaks compensate for the sluggishness of player movement in T3. The Garrett animations are pretty off kilter, so when you walk there is a bit of a limp or something.
The patch. I'm not sure what the final size will be, but it won't be small if my initial tests are any indication. It's a binary patching system that compares all the updated files with their original versions and then extracts the difference to make the patch. I did a test with the sound files and it was 200 megs, so I'm guessing that when I get the gamesys files in there, it will be around 250 megs.
desmasic on 28/1/2006 at 02:27
WOW, 200 MB is way too big for a patch just to play mods. Any way to extract sound files inside users directory instead of distributing them during installation?
New Horizon on 28/1/2006 at 05:11
Quote Posted by desmasic
WOW, 200 MB is way too big for a patch just to play mods. Any way to extract sound files inside users directory instead of distributing them during installation?
Why would this be too big for a one time download? Look at it this way, it's either download a 200 meg patch once, or have to download huge amounts of custom content for every single Enhanced fan mission. It also saves people from having to download a 750 meg editor to play them. If missions are built with the enhanced editor, then people will download the patch.
The idea is to make the update as painless as possible. From weighing all the options, this is the best way...and the least problematic. People can download the patch, run it, and voila...all the work is done for them with a 5 minute patch session. So they have to wait an hour or two for a file to download, at least it saves them hours of extracting all the schemametafiles, creating dummy wav files for the recompilation and then actually recompiling them. It's a little extra bandwidth, for a whole lot of convenience.
Crispy on 28/1/2006 at 11:16
You have you admit that the bandwidth cost is prohibitive for a single mission, especially for dial-up users. Once there are hundreds of missions using T3EnhancEd it becomes slightly less of a problem (people will be more willing to download it), but it will still be a high barrier to entry for some people - and it won't even reduce the size of the mission downloads. So now they don't have to download ~30 MB for a single mission or ~60 MB for two (which is bad enough) - they have to download ~230 MB for a single mission, or ~260 MB for two. Yuck.
Yes, it's better than having to download that 200 MB with every single mission, but it's definitely NOT better (in pure cost terms) than having to download a non-EnhancEd mission.
Keep in mind that bandwidth has a hefty price tag attached, not just a waiting period. When I had dial-up, I would definitely have preferred a five-hour install to a two-hour download; the cost of the download and the inconvenience of tying up the phone line were simply too much, but the install could be left to complete overnight.
I certainly don't mean to disparage your efforts at all - I'm just pointing out that the bandwidth problem is a large one.
SubJeff on 28/1/2006 at 11:38
Yes Crispy, but I think dial-up users would be better of getting it on a magazine CD/DVD or from one of the people who sends such CDs.
Even a couple of years ago I would have though "Woah, that is some crazy DLing that needs doing just ot play an FM". Then I would have done it at work :)
I'm going to set up a poll to find out who has BB and who not.
New Horizon on 28/1/2006 at 14:46
Quote Posted by Crispy
You have you admit that the bandwidth cost is prohibitive for a single mission, especially for dial-up users. Once there are hundreds of missions using T3EnhancEd it becomes slightly less of a problem (people will be more willing to download it), but it will still be a high barrier to entry for some people - and it won't even reduce the size of the mission downloads. So now they don't have to download ~30 MB for a single mission or ~60 MB for two (which is bad enough) - they have to download ~230 MB for a single mission, or ~260 MB for two. Yuck.
Yes, it's better than having to download that 200 MB with every single mission, but it's definitely NOT better (in pure cost terms) than having to download a non-EnhancEd mission.
Keep in mind that bandwidth has a hefty price tag attached, not just a waiting period. When I had dial-up, I would definitely have preferred a five-hour install to a two-hour download; the cost of the download and the inconvenience of tying up the phone line were simply too much, but the install could be left to complete overnight.
I certainly don't mean to disparage your efforts at all - I'm just pointing out that the bandwidth problem
is a large one.
My point though, is that it's a 'one time' download. You don't have to download the base install again. If people had to download a completely new package for 'every' mission, I would see their issue, but that's not the case.
Look at it this way.
I 'could' provide a smaller package, with instructions and let them spend two or three hours working through the update on their own....with 'no' guarantee that it will work when they're done....OR, they can patiently sit on their asses for a few hours while it's downloaded onto their computer, and then comfortably watch a self installing patch take all the hassle out of their hands.
I just don't see what people are complaining about. One way or the other, they're going to 'wait' for this thing. The only difference is...are they going get stuck with the work, or will I have done it for them? I would prefer to do it for them, but if people are going to get bent out of shape because they have to ....'oh my god'...wait, then I'm going to be a little annoyed. If it's a long download...go for a walk, if you're on dialup...request to have a CD sent to you from me or someone who has it.
jolynsbass on 28/1/2006 at 21:18
New Horizon, don't be annoyed. I for one, and I know MANY others, are very grateful to you for your hard work in bringing us this fantastic tool. I will also be very glad when it comes time to play the first T3EnhancEd Fan Mission, and all I have to do it click "Install"... While I am perfectly comfortable messing around with the innards of my hard drive contents, I dislike spending large amounts of time trying to get something installed, etc.
So, A Big Thanks to you, NH, for the amazing things you have done to enhance the T3 editing/playing experience.:thumb:
