Kolya on 8/4/2009 at 20:13
;)
It's just that I have a little sister, so I've always seen that other side as well. It never seemed to be much easier, just different.
Scots Taffer on 8/4/2009 at 23:39
Am I alone in feeling that people put entirely too much weight into this alpha beta zeta gamma shit?
I mean, I know plenty of "alpha" male types that are entirely deficient in traditionally manly areas that put a fuckton of women off them for that reason, whereas I would say I'm not a traditional "alpha" male (not sure what I am, as I've never put any stock into it) but I have sore traditional man-of-the-house attributes that those alpha males do not.
Toxicfluff on 8/4/2009 at 23:48
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Am I alone in feeling that people put entirely too much weight into this alpha beta zeta gamma shit?
I mean, I know plenty of "alpha" male types that are entirely deficient in traditionally manly areas that put a fuckton of women off them for that reason, whereas I would say I'm not a traditional "alpha" male (not sure what I am, as I've never put any stock into it) but I have sore traditional man-of-the-house attributes that those alpha males do not.
I personally think the right kind of assertiveness at the right time is the closest draw to the supposed appeal of the crude and atavistic alpha male. Like someone said, no women like a wuss.
I do think the alpha male type is often trumps for casual sex though and especially with younger women. With caveats of course, because the bolshy bullshit alone is never gonna do it without some humour, beauty or smarts.
Yakoob on 9/4/2009 at 01:10
ITT PUA
Shayde on 9/4/2009 at 08:15
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON AROUND HERE?
Clearly you need to do her best friend and then mail her the videotape you secretly took and then realise that it was all a big misunderstanding and try to retrieve the tape from the determined postal courier with help from a funky, bohemian stranger you meet on your journey who you eventually fall in love with.
Come on people I can't be picking up your slack like this all the time.
Kolya on 9/4/2009 at 10:08
Quote Posted by Shayde
Clearly you need to do her best friend and then mail her the videotape you secretly took and then realise that it was all a big misunderstanding and try to retrieve the tape from the determined postal courier with help from a funky, bohemian stranger you meet on your journey who you eventually fall in love with.
I'd like to read that book/see the movie. :D
BEAR on 9/4/2009 at 17:46
Thanks for all the great replies guys, sorry it took so long to reply (yesterday was fucking busy).
Quote Posted by Queue
Bear, don't take this the wrong way, but from your description it sounds like you are tipping over into the Omega Male range.
Entirely possible. I don't think I'm all that bad, but I think I didn't realize that they might see me like that, when really thats just my nature (I am generally willing to help about anyone out, not just girls I'm interested in).
Quote Posted by Queue
Come on. Young women are awful creatures. They can smell Omega Males - it's faintly of pizza, Doritos and shame - and they like that scent because generally it means a few free lunches, a couple nights out just for laughs, and maybe a diamond or two to add to the collection if they can milk the Omega Male long enough, all without the threat of being pulled into a sexually charged relationship (or while waiting for just such a relationship) which is usually reserved for an Alpha Male. This pattern continues until they finally reach some state of maturity and settle down with a Beta Male either because they view themselves as too old and no longer attractive, or they've simply had the life fucked out of them.
I've come to this conclusion as well, and I'm starting to modify my behavior already.
Quote Posted by Queue
Now, Bear, you stated this: If you're serious about this girl, and want a "relationship" (God only knows why) then you must take charge! Why are you fine with things progressing slowly, when it's obvious from her actions that
she's not? Have you ever noticed that young women, for the most part, are attracted to the men that treat them the worst? Why do you think this is? It's not simply because they are sick, awful creatures. They get off on someone being in charge. It's some weird biology that pushes this primal craving for an overbearing presence. No longer is it the need for a man to kill a mastodon to ensure survival, instead it's manifesting itself in the desire for the type of person will who's more than willing to smack 'em around during rough sex, if that's what they want; not someone who will go fetch a cup of tea, or hang around with her and her girlfriends just to carry the snack trays and drive Susie home when she's drank too much (because everyone knows you would never pull over in the tree line and give her a good shagging).
Yeah, I've thought the same thing. Which is exactly why I'm trying to avoid getting mad, and just trying to instead change the situation without being resentful.
Quote Posted by Queue
Frankly, I'm wondering why on earth you would ever get involved with her girlfriends at all? They shouldn't be in the picture. Quit accommodating her, and the safety of her little gang, by allowing yourself to be their server boy. You have nothing invested in them, thus having no reason to interact with them with-so-ever.
Ah, this. Its harder than it sounds, since its college and we're in classes together, so we end up back at her dorm fairly regularly and her friends are
always fucking there. This isn't THAT big of a deal to me since I get along with them well, but being that my place is further away (off campus), we end up there more often than not (though thats changing, now that she's fairly sure I'm not going to rape her - a reasonable thought since not a week goes by without some sexual assault around here). She's coming over here more often than I'm going over there now, and I'm going to push more in that direction specifically for the reasons you've pointed out.
Quote Posted by Queue
With a statement like that you're asking for trouble. What woman wouldn't swoon under the knowledge that they are being courted by a superior intellect? Please tell me that you're not one of those guys that, when threatened, pulls out the size of his IQ as a defense mechanism.
Yeah that probably sounds a lot worse than it is. I'm not really like that at all, I'm more the type to pretend I know less than I actually do. Occasionally though they will be having some conversation and say really ignorant things and I'll chime in and try to make a point. I'm not an asshole about it though, I usually play devils advocate, asking questions rather than just saying how it is like "You think? How would that explain X then? And if Y then why would this have happened?" when I already know the answer, I just prefer to lead people to something rather than just say "you're wrong and here is why". I shouldn't have even mentioned that because it makes me sound like a dick (actually, I need to be more of a dick about it. With my natural tone people tend to not take what I say seriously until later when they realize I was right).
Quote Posted by Queue
Finally, with all the this being said, the bottom line is that she's obviously bored with you (no question there)--it's either because she's a cunt, her friends are controlling the situation (not unheard of), you won't take control when you should be, you're hiding behind the whole superiority routine instead of opening up, you're a hopeless Omega Male, or are just a complete douche. What is it? Self realization is the first step you should take. Who are you, and what are you going to do about it?
Probably somewhere between the two. I don't think I have a superiority complex though, of that I'm reasonably sure. But regardless, you raise good points, and I already know things I need to do. (some I had though of but needed reinforcement and some I hadn't).
BEAR on 14/4/2009 at 05:54
Sorry it took me this long to respond, was busy as hell last part of last week and was in the boondocks with no internet until today.
Quote Posted by Starrfall
A little more information would be helpful - you don't really tell us what stage the relationship is in (just dating? dating exclusively? third base? gettin some?) and some more concrete examples of the things you do for her/her friends and her failures to reciprocate or appreciate would make it a little easier to pinpoint what's going on, because right now it's hard to tell if you're just being overly sensitive or not.
I guess we're somewhere between first and second base? She's fairly uncomfortable physically. Apparently her few prior relationships were not particularly affectionate, so I'm building her up slowly (which I actually don't think is a mistake, even if it sounds like it, I could probably move a little faster but too much could be much worse for her).
As far as doing things: I have a car, and they do not (well, not within miles of campus). I'm fairly free with giving people rides, provided they appreciate it and they certainly take full advantage, which is why I'm going to tone it back slightly because I don't want them to get too used to it (ie they need to know they, her friends, get it as a bonus when I'm doing things for her). I also help her and her roommate with things they have no experience at, like shopping for an apartment. They wanted to move off campus and I basically did it for them while wrangling to make them feel like they did it (which is basically how I do everything that I help people do). Funny thing is I'm too good at it to the point where people don't realize I even helped them at all and don't take my advice in the future as much as they should.
Quote Posted by Starrfall
Waiting a week to talk to her about this makes no sense.
My idea for waiting was that a) my perception was getting fucked up and things might not be what I think and b) she's got her own shit going on and this particular incident might have more to do with something else than me.
I try to avoid discussing things when I'm in a troubled mindset, so I was going to wait until after I went home (when I go home things become a lot more clear to me since I'm so utterly disconnected from the entire world), so I knew in all likelihood things would look different when I got back.
Quote Posted by Starrfall
You don't have to be angry or a jerk when you talk to her, kick it off with something like "I'm kind of starting to feel like I'm being used as an errand boy" and see where it goes.
I have to be majorly pissed to actually be a jerk, and it would require me trying to be serious about something like that and her being a total bitch in response to probably make me be a jerk (even though I can when I need to be).
Also I'm pretty sure I gave her and her friends the impression I was slightly pissed off (even though I didn't actually mean to), and they seemed to already know why. It was amazing how quickly they got the message with just a slight change of attitude.
Quote Posted by Starrfall
"About women, you'll never find a woman who respects you if you cannot assert your male traits to her. Women don't want you to be the master, but they don't want a wuss either. It works two ways, you do nice things for them but don't take crap about anything either."
Great advice that I'm taking to heart.
Quote Posted by Starrfall
"Why don't you try denying some of their requests (using plausible reasons and so forth) and see where that takes you? I find that to be a good litmus test for how reasonable somebody is"
Did this, and they were perfectly sweet and didn't complain (probably aided by the vibe they were getting from me at the time).
All in all, I think this event was probably a third real issue, a third her dealing with shit that had little/nothing to do with me, and a third me being stressed out already coupled with things that needed to be done anyways, that I just didn't notice until recently.
Thanks for all the great advice. Its funny, because I can reason through most things but when its an issue I'm emotionally invested in its much harder for me to gauge objectively (which is why I needed to go home badly, it is like the perfect place to brood and contemplate).
As much as I hate making bitchy threads, this one reminded me of things I should have known but had forgotten, reinforced things I already kind of knew and gave me good ideas I hadn't really considered at all. Thanks guys.
Kolya on 14/4/2009 at 07:43
Yeah, no problem. Don't forget the flirting.
Code:
.body {flirt:all !important;}
BEAR on 14/4/2009 at 23:42
o7
