Tocky on 8/4/2009 at 04:07
One small thing to expound upon is that some people try to make you into thier perception of you. It could be the total opposite of what you are but they have thier box and are determined you are going to fit in it. You can try to disabuse them of this notion but it's usually a waste of time. Some people will constantly try to make everyone in life fit thier warped perception. Stay away from them. They will never make you happy. Worse, they will take your attention from those who can.
Time is precious and you need to fill it with those who have the wit to see you for what you are. Those are the ones who make the times of your life. Those are the ones you wont regret spending your time on. I don't care how good looking they are. You know this.
BEAR on 8/4/2009 at 04:52
Good point Tocky, I've had the same thought. She's been treated fairly badly by other people and tends to for some reason assume I'm the same, so I realize sometimes that she doesn't see things I do in the same way I see myself as doing them. She see's her mistake eventually it seems.
I think my post turned into much more a bitching than I had meant it. My original hope was to find out if this was a common thing (the nicer you are the more worse they treat you) because I've been told that, I just didn't believe it.
It seems that since people aren't saying "yeah, we're all totally fucked" it probably isn't like that. And it very well might not be like that for me. I'm a resilient motherfucker usually, but occasionally shit gets me down for a few minutes (usually about it), I'm feeling better already.
Thanks all who replied (especially ones with thoughtful stuff to say ;) )
june gloom on 8/4/2009 at 04:58
Quote Posted by theBlackman
Ignore Deth... If he/they can't think fast enough, tough. :ebil:
I wasn't actually here. :p
theBlackman on 8/4/2009 at 06:10
Tocky has a good point. Preconception, or rather, desired perception, is a fault that causes a lot of problems.
The only saving factor is to be "you" and not what "they" think or want you to "be". We all have a handful of different faces we wear for the "public", but if your underlying character is strong, you can be yourself to/for those who deserve it and ignore those who can't handle the "real" you.
Adjusting to the social circles one mixes with is acceptable behaviour, but adjusting until "you" disappear, is a psychological disaster for "you".
Shug on 8/4/2009 at 07:27
Why don't you try denying some of their requests (using plausible reasons and so forth) and see where that takes you? I find that to be a good litmus test for how reasonable somebody is
Kolya on 8/4/2009 at 08:14
Sounds to me like you've fallen a bit (early) for that girl while she just thought you were nice and instead of getting into her pants you've gotten used to hang around with her friends. Being nice won't get you anywhere nor will denying your niceties. You've never been on her to-do list to boot.
No reason to despair though. She/they like you and you should just treat them like a bunch of befriended ladies. Be friendly but not too friendly.
Now to the good part: You get to hang around with a bunch of girls. This alone will teach you a lot about women. Flirt with each of them. Do it for practice and for fun.
You'll soon find there's nothing more interesting for other girls than a guy in a group of girls. There must be something about him, right? RIGHT! Go out with them, have fun and keep your eyes open. You're the ladies man now.
Queue on 8/4/2009 at 15:29
Bear, don't take this the wrong way, but from your description it sounds like you are tipping over into the Omega Male range. An Omega Male trait, and one that always comes back to bit the said male in the ass, is: You're too anxious to please the female of the species in order to make up for a lack of self confidence.
Come on. Young women are awful creatures. They can smell Omega Males - it's faintly of pizza, Doritos and shame - and they like that scent because generally it means a few free lunches, a couple nights out just for laughs, and maybe a diamond or two to add to the collection if they can milk the Omega Male long enough, all without the threat of being pulled into a sexually charged relationship (or while waiting for just such a relationship) which is usually reserved for an Alpha Male. This pattern continues until they finally reach some state of maturity and settle down with a Beta Male either because they view themselves as too old and no longer attractive, or they've simply had the life fucked out of them.
Here, this is from some young chick's blog; it demonstrates just how annoying these women can be due to their ambiguous nature, and shows one's view of the Omega Male:
Quote:
Have I ever had problems with Omega males? Yeah, DEFINITELY. Some of them are so submissive that I need to make all the decisions for them. Some of them go too much with the flow that they forget about themselves and sometimes me. Some of them can just sit there and wait for something to happen while I am the GO GO GO person...they are the WAIT WAIT WAIT people. *sigh*
But somehow or the other, I prefer my men mellow and a little quiet. The moment they talk too much, I turn my switch off unless they're super-duper good-looking, of course! In my mind, a man who is too full of himself, does too much self-promotion, and thinks he's the center of the Universe is a big turn off. When in a group, my attention always turn to those who are cute but sits at a corner listening to the conversation. Of course, too much aloofness is no good either. The perfect guy would also have a good sense of humor with perfect timing wan. Can make me and the rest of the people laugh without too much effort. Dunno....too much boasting does not go down well with me. As a joke fine. I assume that the Alpha male is this kind...don't like! Anyway....
Source:(
http://trulymarsha.wordpress.com/2007/05/22/alpha-beta-or-omega-male-to-go/) somecunt'sblog.com
To all Omega Males out there, don't let these women hurt you. They are not worth your time.
Now, Bear, you stated this:
Quote:
...and things have been going fairly well (if slow, but thats ok with me).
If you're serious about this girl, and want a "relationship" (God only knows why) then you must take charge! Why are you fine with things progressing slowly, when it's obvious from her actions that
she's not? Have you ever noticed that young women, for the most part, are attracted to the men that treat them the worst? Why do you think this is? It's not simply because they are sick, awful creatures. They get off on someone being in charge. It's some weird biology that pushes this primal craving for an overbearing presence. No longer is it the need for a man to kill a mastodon to ensure survival, instead it's manifesting itself in the desire for the type of person will who's more than willing to smack 'em around during rough sex, if that's what they want; not someone who will go fetch a cup of tea, or hang around with her and her girlfriends just to carry the snack trays and drive Susie home when she's drank too much (because everyone knows you would never pull over in the tree line and give her a good shagging).
Frankly, I'm wondering why on earth you would ever get involved with her girlfriends at all? They shouldn't be in the picture. Quit accommodating her, and the safety of her little gang, by allowing yourself to be their server boy. You have nothing invested in them, thus having no reason to interact with them with-so-ever.
Okay. Now, I'm going to turn this against you--equal opportunity, and all.
Quote:
...and they are all aware that I am smarter then they are so I can't imagine they think they are fooling me.
With a statement like that you're asking for trouble. What woman wouldn't swoon under the knowledge that they are being courted by a superior intellect? Please tell me that you're not one of those guys that, when threatened, pulls out the size of his IQ as a defense mechanism. The only thing that does is show others how full of yourself you truly are, which is a huge turn off to women. Remember, they want charm, charisma, a sense of humor about one's self, someone who will listen AND talk, someone who will show a tender side AND take control; and, most off all, sincere--not a pompous ass who can manipulate a slide-rule with more confidence than his cock. This actually goes back to being an Omega Male trait; hiding behind some sort of mental "shield" (used to be a rock in the olden days), such as a sense of higher intelligence, instead of showing who you are. It screams to people, especially women, that there's nothing really there, AND that
you don't find yourself that interesting, either.
One thing that really bothers me is this statement:
Quote:
...I've been stupidly good to these girls because they seem so fucking helpless and I'm beginning to regret it.
What kind of horseshit statement is this? "They seem so fucking helpless?" Who the fuck do you think you are to say you're being good to them because they are so "fucking helpless"?! Dude, no offense, but that just screams of one being a self-centered douche. You really need to drop that attitude or else you will get nowhere in life.
Finally, you said:
Quote:
I'm still too nice I think to be mean about it, because I don't know if its really their fault, might just be nature, but I'm going to have to make my displeasure known. Stupid thing is I basically don't really ask for anything, but I'm sure as hell not going to sacrifice things to give things to people because thats bullshit.
Are you ever going to quit being self-centered? You don't ask for anything, and are unwilling to sacrifice anything. So what the hell do you want?!
Finally, with all the this being said, the bottom line is that she's obviously bored with you (no question there)--it's either because she's a cunt, her friends are controlling the situation (not unheard of), you won't take control when you should be, you're hiding behind the whole superiority routine instead of opening up, you're a hopeless Omega Male, or are just a complete douche. What is it? Self realization is the first step you should take. Who are you, and what are you going to do about it?
...I say this all with love.
*kisses*
Q
Starrfall on 8/4/2009 at 17:23
A little more information would be helpful - you don't really tell us what stage the relationship is in (just dating? dating exclusively? third base? gettin some?) and some more concrete examples of the things you do for her/her friends and her failures to reciprocate or appreciate would make it a little easier to pinpoint what's going on, because right now it's hard to tell if you're just being overly sensitive or not.
Waiting a week to talk to her about this makes no sense. It seems to me that she either realizes what she's doing but thinks it doesn't bother you, realizes what she's doing and doesn't care, or doesn't realize what she's doing (I think sometimes the reason guys think they don't understand girls is because they think girls are always fully aware of what's going on and what other people feel/think. I assure you this is not necessarily the case). Either way, if any of these scenarios is true she's probably not going to magically change her behavior in the next week. Talk to her sooner rather than later because you need to know what she's thinking before you try to decide whether or not to change your behavior. Right now it seems like you're waiting for her to notice that you're not happy and that's probably the worst plan.
You don't have to be angry or a jerk when you talk to her, kick it off with something like "I'm kind of starting to feel like I'm being used as an errand boy" and see where it goes. Her response will probably do a lot to tell you where her head is. She might apologize because she didn't realize, she might get upset and start pointing out things she's done for you recently (this is probably still a good reaction: it probably means she's upset 1) because you're unhappy and 2) because she thinks she has been reciprocating and you haven't noticed. Both of these means she cares what you think.), or she might get upset because you caught her, or she might say "you know you're right, I don't think I'm as into this as you are I think we should just be friends." Regardless, surely finding out is better than continuing as you are?
Also I particularly agree with these:
"If you find a girl doesn't respect you when you respect and treat her well, DTMFA (Dump The Mother Fucker Already to cite Savage Love). You should seek out someone who appreciates you for who and what you are."
"About women, you'll never find a woman who respects you if you cannot assert your male traits to her. Women don't want you to be the master, but they don't want a wuss either. It works two ways, you do nice things for them but don't take crap about anything either."
"Why don't you try denying some of their requests (using plausible reasons and so forth) and see where that takes you? I find that to be a good litmus test for how reasonable somebody is"
Kolya on 8/4/2009 at 18:21
Not that the points, that've been made so far, weren't good or at least good fun... But given the vagueness of BEAR's post, I get the feeling that all of our well-meant advice ultimately says more about ourselves than it does about
women,
men and the kind of relationship any single person out of these groups may want. The answer to your question is (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)) mu, BEAR.
*assumes ZEN position*EDIT: Now that I've established that we're really all talking about ourselves, I'd like to say something about that Alpha/Beta/Omega-Male categorization Queue brought up. I read the blog entry you pulled your quote from. And the thing I disliked the most about it was that said young woman took over this concept which originates from the study of animal behaviour and unquestioningly applied it to humans.
I know we all do this for fun from time to time, we say: "He's a typical alpha!" But think about it for a moment where that puts us as social, self-aware and intelligent individuals. But your only gripe with her is that she doesn't treat "the Omega males" right. She's about 17 or 18 and she's written a blog entry that's probably meant to be at least as entertaining as self-reflective. And you, a grown man and no stupid one at that, take her immature little writing and use it to condemn all young women as awful man-abusing bitches. All the time you never even get to the bottom of it, that the concept she used was wrong to apply to individual humans to begin with. I'll give you the same benefit of doubt as her and hope you partly did that to be entertaining.
Queue on 8/4/2009 at 20:00
*tipping Kolya over* Zen that! :p
