FatSpy on 6/2/2014 at 17:29
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
No, no, no, a thousand times no. They did not lie.
Do you get extra gold for getting a headshot? No. XP removed. You only get gold from looting. You use golds to acquire upgrades. Upgrades != XP system. They never claimed to remove the upgrade system, and if you'd thought they had, you should pay more attention instead of accusing them of "lying".
You're right. All they needed to do was replace the xp with gold and suddenly the a level- i mean upgrade system is ok, because all you need to do is change some words around and suddenly it's something completely different. It's not lying it's just making it sound like you removed something that was disliked, when in actuality you just reworked and reworded it so it's really still in the game but now you wont get the backlash of having something a lot of people where upset about anyways even if nothing really changed at all except you have to pick up the xp- i mean gold now.
june gloom on 6/2/2014 at 17:32
Quote Posted by NuEffect
(although you
do have some odd tentative alliance with frothcrew alpha).
Alliance? More like he's their replacement since they've all but disappeared, except Goldie when the nurses let him use the internet. All that's needed is the LARP speak and he'll be indistinguishable.
GodzillaX8 on 6/2/2014 at 17:47
Quote Posted by FatSpy
You're right. All they needed to do was replace the xp with gold and suddenly the a level- i mean upgrade system is ok, because all you need to do is change some words around and suddenly it's something completely different. It's not lying it's just making it sound like you removed something that was disliked, when in actuality you just reworked and reworded it so it's really still in the game but now you wont get the backlash of having something a lot of people where upset about anyways even if nothing really changed at all except you have to pick up the xp- i mean gold now.
You're completely ignorant of the entire point here.
You are no longer rewarded for murdering people to level up. THAT was the big complaint. Now your character progression is based SOLELY on your ability to loot. I'm pretty certain they even said exactly this in the post where they revealed it was removed. There's a huge difference between using XP and gold to upgrade skills, not the least of which is that now your skill upgrades will come at the cost of possibly being unable to resupply your consumables, due to them now sharing the same currency.
You're just grasping at straws to be mad about nonsense. If you don't like character upgrades, don't spend any of the points you earn in the game. I highly doubt they'll FORCE you to spend them.
FatSpy on 6/2/2014 at 17:51
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
You're completely ignorant of the entire point here.
You are no longer rewarded for murdering people to level up. THAT was the big complaint. Now your character progression is based SOLELY on your ability to loot. I'm pretty certain they even said exactly this in the post where they revealed it was removed. There's a huge difference between using XP and gold to upgrade skills, not the least of which is that now your skill upgrades will come at the cost of possibly being unable to resupply your consumables, due to them now sharing the same currency.
You're just grasping at straws to be mad about nonsense. If you don't like character upgrades, don't spend any of the points you earn in the game. I highly doubt they'll FORCE you to spend them.
I forgot thief's motto was "You can disable it" for a second. I guess I can't really comment on the leveling system then because theres no way to know how drastic the level differences are. My main concern was that a leveling system introduces shallowness in gameplay.
GodzillaX8 on 6/2/2014 at 17:56
Quote Posted by FatSpy
I forgot thief's motto was "You can disable it" for a second. I guess I can't really comment on the leveling system then because theres no way to know how drastic the level differences are. My main concern was that a leveling system introduces shallowness in gameplay.
Was Deus Ex shallow? Was System Shock? I don't think leveling systems inherently reduce the depth of a game, in many cases they increase it.
Weasel on 6/2/2014 at 18:08
Quote Posted by FatSpy
I forgot thief's motto was "You can disable it" for a second. I guess I can't really comment on the leveling system then because theres no way to know how drastic the level differences are. My main concern was that a leveling system introduces shallowness in gameplay.
I know where you're coming from. I hate it when a leveling system is at odds with player skill, sometimes to the point of negating player skill. From what I've heard about Thief so far, it doesn't seem to go too far in that direction.
FatSpy on 6/2/2014 at 18:16
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Was Deus Ex shallow? Was System Shock? I don't think leveling systems inherently reduce the depth of a game, in many cases they increase it.
Aren't those games where you can build your character a certain way and levels almost required to even progress, and thus the leveling system is more involved because you could choose a variety of play styles, where as in Thief it's purely a stealth game where you relied on your skills to sneak around guards and plan ahead, and a leveling system would be extremely shallow and only serve to make you overpowered (like in dishonored)
Quote Posted by Weasel
I know where you're coming from. I hate it when a leveling system is at odds with player skill, sometimes to the point of negating player skill. From what I've heard about Thief so far, it doesn't seem to go too far in that direction.
It just doesn't seem to fit Thief at all, but then again thief 4 isn't going to be much of a thief game really.
jay pettitt on 6/2/2014 at 20:35
Upgrades (and XP) are perfectly valid - lots of very good games have them, but it's a sea-change for the Thief model of doing things. Thief was designed to give the player things to actually get better at, not give the player ways to upgrade their avatar to meet challenges.
In [old] Thief if you wanted to improve your aim you needed to practice your aim, not buy an upgrade.
Platinumoxicity on 8/2/2014 at 12:16
I've been playing Splinter Cell Blacklist, and I don't know whether the game was designed around upgrades or not. There's different armor that is supposed to make you stealthier and give you more equipment slots, but I just want the equipment slots. There should never be stealth upgrades in a stealth game. You should never be forced to re-learn the stealth mechanics that you have been getting used to right until you unlocked an upgrade. What I've been forced to do in Blacklist is get the stealth armor piece that increases the slots, and then balance away the stealth upgrade that it caused by getting an assault armor piece.
I hope Thief is balanced around not getting any upgrades. So that if the game is too hard for you in its standard configuration, you can buy these cheats to make your character more powerful than what the game was designed for. It sounds condescending, but I think that's how it should be. For an extreme example, let's say that late in the game there is a section that can only be passed if you can sneak past an enemy. You need to be able to move very quietly, and remain unseen, but the environment makes it impossible to achieve that unless you have upgraded your stealth stats. That should not happen. The game should give you a reasonable challenge without the optional upgrades, and a decreased challenge with the upgrades.
