Grundbegriff on 12/8/2001 at 17:28

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I could be wrong, but I doubt that villages were built over the mines on which they depended. The usual configuration, I believe, would have been that a village arose near the mouth of a mine which was bored into some elevated terrain such as a hill or mountain. Exceptions exist, I imagine. Still, the idea that Dayport would be developed on potentially unstable terrain seems unlikely, and the only evidence to support such a notion is that "day" is technical mining jargon for the surface above a mine. While I admit that this may mean that the area of Dayport (near the water, away from elevated terrain) was mined in the City's early days, I suspect mines such as Cragscleft are actually in foothills on the City's periphery.



That much is clear. One of the missions actually takes place in a mine. ;)

Digital Nightfall on 13/8/2001 at 22:20

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Any chance this map (the ASCII one) is going to change any time soon? If not, I will go ahead and have the CoSaS artists use it as a guide to edit some of our existing city maps to reflect this more studied and acurate version of The City layout. :)

Grundbegriff on 14/8/2001 at 13:45

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Digi,

Let me upload a last revision of the ascii map that shows where the major landmarks are situated on my hand-drawn sketch. There's a rationale behind the placement of some of the major sites.

Grundbegriff on 15/8/2001 at 12:03

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Here's map #1 of 3, which corrects the misleading map that Garrett used in ASSN. This map, based on in-game measurements, shows the correct proportions of the streets that run through New Market, and shows the passageways omitted in Garrett's map. Farkus's shop, Garrett's apartment, and the entrance to the Lost City are marked with initials. The fortified wall surrounding New Market is shown in red. (Note: this fortification is not the same as the barricade that surrounds a section of the Old Quarter!) All known canals are marked in blue. They flow from the northern canal that leads (I presume) to the River (not shown), and flow southward through New Market, exiting westward near the entrance to Karath-Din. (Note: this westward path of the canal fits well with the idea that the Ambush/Courier neighborhood is in the New Quarter to the west, south of Shalebridge and southwest of HighTowne. Map #2 shows this connection).

It's clear that Garrett's apartment isn't in DownTowne, since if it were there would be no reason to mark "DownTowne" on the map. Likewise, it makes sense that Garrett would identify his area as "Home Turf" rather than use the proper name of the district, since he knows the name of his neighborhood. This too suggests that his apartment is in a district not otherwise named on the map. For these reasons, and others mentioned above, I've placed Garrett's apartment in the South Quarter.

<a href="http://pantheon.yale.edu/~dcbyron/screenshots/newmarket.png"><img width=600 src=http://pantheon.yale.edu/~dcbyron/screenshots/newmarket.png></a>

{placeholder for map #2}

{placeholder for map #3}

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Grundbegriff ]

Grundbegriff on 15/8/2001 at 15:06

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The City is pretty large. Since we know that canals pervade the City and since all that water must be coming from somewhere, we can posit modest mountains as the source of the River, and the River as the source for the canals. Now, the sea appears to be to the south, and the canals tend to flow toward the south from the north. So it's reasonable to suppose that the River to the north is flowing from up in the mountains.

All of this is consistent with the theory that Cragscleft is in those small northern mountains. Thus, the mining would have taken place there and stretched down on either side of the River just northeast of Shalebridge (which, I take it, spreads onto both banks).

Cragscleft could be located in the eastern mountains that are visible across the River from Eastport, but then it would seem strange to construe Cragscleft as part of the City (or of that portion of the City where Garrett's other adventures seem to unfold).

Needless to say, if Cragscleft is north of the North Quarter in the foothills northeast of Shalebridge, toward the River's remote source, then there's no risk at all that subterranean mines there would bump into the Lost City. The Lost City stretches from just south of Garrett's home and Ramirez Manor all the way to the sea in Dayport.

Here, how 'bout a sketch that shows where the Lost City is, where BUSH & COUR take place, and where the haunted, canal-laced portion of the Old Quarter is. Dayport must be extended south a bit more to accommodate the true scale of Karath-Din, but this gives the gist.
<img src=http://pantheon.yale.edu/~dcbyron/screenshots/landmarks01.png>




You seem to believe that the Lost City is the full extent of Precursor Civilization, where in fact it appears only to be the capital. Ancient capitals were often small by today's standards, even in great civilizations.



With respect, Aaron made a bunch of that stuff up out of whole cloth; his details don't necessarily have an evidential basis in the gameworld itself.



That's one of Graham's inventions. I see no reason to follow it.



Who says the Eye (or any similar stone) was found in Cragscleft? The presence of zombies isn't automatically an index of Eye-influence. Besides, carefully cut and artfully mounted gemstones are, uhm, seldom found in mines; and if that crafstmanship is Precursorial, then such an artifact wouldn't have been in a mine at all after the fall of Karath-Din. It seems to me that the Eye is a Precursor artifact but was recovered from the Lost City, or a similar site, long after it had been mined, shaped, and used by the Precursors themselves. The chaos at Cragscleft has a more plausible explanation.



I agree, and have asserted above, that the idea of mines running below the City in a pervasive manner, all the way down to Dayport, must be rejected.

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Grundbegriff ]

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Grundbegriff ]