Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
Solabusca on 22/9/2005 at 17:05
Quote Posted by str8g8
Sola, is Lampfire Hills presented as a city section? (It sounds more of an outlying district or something).
It's presented as a quieter suburb of the city, and a place where Garret rents a small house for one of his periodic 'retirements'. (AiLH)
Further, it's north end is referred to as Lamfire, is bordered by cliff-faces (CL1).
To the south/southeast is Highwatch (and Calendra's Cistern) (CC, CL1). I placed it where I did 'cause it's across the river from Hightowne.
East is Murkbell, a very busy city section riddled with canals (CL2)
.j.
theBlackman on 22/9/2005 at 18:39
Not to beat a dead horse, but the SHALEBRIDGE controversy (discussion) seems to have overlooked a simplistice option.
It was not, and is not uncommon for city gates to be named for the "path" they cut off. The arrows do show Shalebridge proper to either be adjacent to, or a distance away from THE CITY.
As THE CITY grew, it expanded over SHALEBRIDGE ROAD, and a GATE was put in the wall to enable the city to close off that route.
The gate would naturally have been called SHALEBRIDGE GATE. And SHALEBRIDGE proper could easily be some distance from the current city walls.
SHALEBRIDGE ROAD would have kept its name, and the inhabitants of the city thier referrences to it.
Shalebridge Cradle merely takes its name because IT IS ON SHALEBRIDGE ROAD and not IN or ADJACENT to SHALEBRIDGE PROPER.
edit: It could have been called, CATHEDRAL CRADLE (Cathedral way) had it been located on that street.
This covers the cradle situation, Garrett's retreat, and justifies the use in the differing circumstances.
I will have to study the maps with a little more attention to determine if it helps the map development.
EDITED: For spelling and additional clarification.
str8g8 on 22/9/2005 at 19:55
Blackman: that's precisely the argument for the current layout :) thankyou for summing it up so precisely.
theBlackman on 22/9/2005 at 20:29
Thanks, str8g8, as an after thought, (always the case). Randy has stated that the river divides THE CITY.
Everyone is comfortable with this, the overlooked part of that is that many rivers of this type (estuary/bay/Coastal) frequently have "branches" that vary from mere rivlets to streams nearly the size of the parent.
The river to LOST CITY need not be the main river, and the canals in various parts of the city may well be branches that were leveed and otherwise converted to canals. Also it is common (I have lived in many such places) for the "rivers, creeks, and other rivlets" to be paved over, run through drainage systems etc. to permit construction above and to control the "flood" possiblity. Not to mention using existing waterways for sewage and storm drainage; thus removing the need to construct new ones.
So the visible water in AMBUSH, ASSASSINS, COURIER, and other such "Local" maps, may be merely small portions of the branches that were left open as a source for water or other use.
theBlackman on 22/9/2005 at 20:43
Map makers check this out
All the maps could be put in this and it will scroll the maps for viewing.
Any mapper registered could add a map at any time. This would negate the need for all the links to the different sites we are currently using.
Everyone would still have his or her or its map on thier own site, but a single link to the "Scroll" would be the only link needed.
Sounds like a potential tool. (
http://www.filmloop.com)
Solabusca on 22/9/2005 at 21:39
Quote Posted by theBlackman
SHALEBRIDGE ROAD would have kept its name, and the inhabitants of the city thier referrences to it.
Shalebridge Cradle merely takes its name because IT IS ON SHALEBRIDGE ROAD and not IN or ADJACENT to SHALEBRIDGE PROPER.
edit: It could have been called, CATHEDRAL CRADLE (Cathedral way) had it been located on that street.
This covers the cradle situation, Garrett's retreat, and justifies the use in the differing circumstances.
I will have to study the maps with a little more attention to determine if it helps the map development.
*sigh*
Beating dead horse time, indeed -
1) Shalebridge road runs N/S in Ambush. Most recent map has Cradle far to the east, and SB very, very far to the NW.
2) Arrows to SB point NE. Not NW. AMBUSH indicates a quick getaway, not a city-wide trek, so current map layout seems clunky in that respect. Solution: move SB closer on the map - I've posited two possibles, and am looking forward to further discussion.
3) Shalebridge/Newmarket river connection, which you touch on in a later post - the city is riddled with waterways. There's nothing saying that SB is on the other side of the HUGE RIVER, just A river.
two of the three problems are solved by reverting to the earlier map (and/or placing SB on the south shore), because it allows SB to be NE, and near enough to NM to 'cross a river' due to a drought.
The only remaining problem is the Cradle, which is not connected to Shalebridge road.
Anyways, as I said, the compromise map I've posted is still up for debate.
Back to work for me, gents!
.j.
jtr7 on 23/9/2005 at 01:27
With mountains to the north and east, and hills here and there (based on briefings, map layouts, and discussions in this thread), noting the shape of Cragscleft (similar to the range seen in a briefing) and all of the run-off, there shouldn't be too much debate over tributaries and canals (likely diverted tributaries) versus a "huge friggin' river," with watercraft and bridges spanning across it (with several columns and arches supporting them).
As an aside, I wonder why we don't see geo-thermal activity such as geysers, scalding hot springs, steaming fissures, etc., since the Lost City shows water flowing into the crust and lava all over (before TMA, anyway), and the Maw has similar Fire/Water juxtapositions...
Mugla on 23/9/2005 at 13:52
Quote Posted by Solabusca
1) Shalebridge road runs N/S in Ambush. Most recent map has Cradle far to the east, and SB very, very far to the NW.
2) Arrows to SB point NE. Not NW. AMBUSH indicates a quick getaway, not a city-wide trek, so current map layout seems clunky in that respect. Solution: move SB closer on the map - I've posited two possibles, and am looking forward to further discussion.
3) Shalebridge/Newmarket river connection, which you touch on in a later post - the city is riddled with waterways. There's nothing saying that SB is on the other side of the HUGE RIVER, just A river.
The map above (by str8g8) is actually one of the oldest maps we have been playin around, so I'm wondering how you could had missed it. I take you have been referring to str8g8's newest version, in which I noticed the same issues as you did?
1. One of the main roads from T3 map runs N-S, and dodges down into the Cradle (which is, by the way, at the first bridge, clearly seen in the cutscene with Inspector Drept).
Inline Image:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/kartou/t3mapcradle.jpgWhen connecting Ambush! with it, we can name it SB-road. This will also leave the Ambush! home into SQ for now (it is 'home turf', meaning a place where he 'reigns'. All Ramirez knew G. terrorized SQ, thus the ambush had to be somewhere where he could find him (otherwise it would had been straightly directed at his home, while he was shopping etc. kind of explanation)), and name the northest bridge... Shale Bridge...
Also such option for the name of the Cradle was discussed, that it was made for the orphans of the Shalebridge, but the snob who funded it wanted to keep the kids away from the old neighbourhood.
2. So now the arrows of Ambush! point directly at Shalebridge, which was actually stretched so that it would fit inside them. For me it seems that there has to be some distance due to the arrows, or they wouldn't be there, just like the corners are straightly named without arrows in the Assassins! map. Just as str8g8 said, there then can be a clear run to the safety of SB, as the guards are swarming around G.'s house for a reason. But that is only one option.
3. The River dilemma is true, and indeed, as theBlackman suggested, we've already considered calling the stream from the Keeper-map (and later paved over in Assassins! some 50 years later) a side-track from the main River. The hills have been planned accordingly, too.
But, as I've noted, it has been paved over. Actually so much, that I cannot see how the peasants would use it to cross, when they simply can walk over it 80% of the lenght!
So, in the above map, Assassins! was placed as close to the River as possible, and if it weren't for the Keeper-map and the few rows of houses over the north-wall, the wall would had been right next to the River.
Also note the LotP guest-register, where this feller was having 'a vacation in Shalebridge', but this was 'hand-waved' as being some slang for being bankrupt etc. Though why would the mechanists use such language, I cannot say. Or perhaps they were only told so, and believed it.
Anyways, just an option.
So, now we have pretty much two valid options, the two str8g8 mentioned above.
EDIT:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/kartou/51a63156.gif" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
Oh, also note, Assassins!' real scale. Brings NM even closer. Perhaps it could stretch above the wall too? But... hometurf retracts upwards... Then again, it was never tied to SQ anyways...
Mugla on 25/9/2005 at 08:56
Alright, as I see it, we should wait MorbusG finish his work on the evidence-gathering, and then construct a full map on both versions. Unless either turns out to be clearly better option, we will have to include both, and let the fan-missioners vote, which they'll use. The other one will then be left as a margin note for accounting purposes. We might also be able to use that filmloop.com Black mentioned to speed up some of the exchange, do you think?
Also the site's build should be taken under consideration.
Logan: Well, just for the fun's sake (remember to give some artistic freedom for such sketches. It might be a real-life sketch of a town after-all, much like the picture of the Trixter playing the bag-pipes is):
-The River-curve can be seen going into the distance.
-Sea can be seen at the fore-ground
-Clocktower on the hill in the left side
-Mountains on the right side of the picture, in the correct alignment
-The 'gates' by the river-bend, part of the Sealed Section
-The shoals in the river-bend (though on the wrong side, due to natural river behavior and Shoalsgate on the opposite bank etc.)
But:
-There is merely wilderness in Dayport
-No bridges seen, just a water-fence
Remember, just for the fun's sake. ;)
