Mapping out The City.

Mugla on 13/9/2005 at 13:26

Sorry for the late drop-in. Plans don't always go as they should. :laff:

Now for starters, personally I'd go back to the older version of str8g8's, and keep going with it. But, we've opened the bag of possible interpretations (and found a whole new (read also: old ;) ) cadre of mappers to our project), so turning back doesn't really seem like an option (unless we make the whole trip, and end up going a whole circle).

The case of TLC-cutscene is clearly manyfold; all interpretations fit more or less, and it comes up to each viewer to select theirs (notice, the scale-tipping evidence of the hammerite-window could be a cross-window instead). I am pretty sure that all campments will have more than one supporter in the end, if a poll is pulled up. And besides, we wouldn't want to ditch a single piece of evidence.
Let's see if an adequate compromise can surface.

Hopefully I have more time next weekend... I was hoping to add some suggestions to the site-design and the current version.

str8g8 on 13/9/2005 at 20:12

@kamyk: it's a worthy project, but it is out of the scope of the City Map, which will only go down to the detail of streets and locations of the various missions. However, if you were to go on and produce those maps, you would get nothing but support and encouragement from everyone on the thread, and there's no readon why the City map can't link to the various mission maps in some way ... so knock yourself out :thumb: My advice would be to get hold of the dromed and the original missions and use them as a template, together with what you see ingame, as some have suggested.

@Mugla: which map would you revert to exactly? the one on my site? Or an earlier one?

As for where things stand at the moment I kind of agree with Mugla ... we have opened up alternatives ... but alternatives aren't necessarily better, they're just different.

cheers
str8g8

bukary on 13/9/2005 at 20:18

Thank you all for the explanations! :thumb:

Szandor on 13/9/2005 at 20:20

Quote Posted by bukary

Thank you all for the explanations! :thumb:

Just doing my part to confuse.

kamyk on 14/9/2005 at 11:04

Quote Posted by Solabusca

Any other questions?
.j.

Yes, one. Why is it that everytime I find a game I want to mod for, there are always people who try to shoot me down? I have modded for Doom, Blood, Half-life, Sims, and Sims2, and in every one of those cases, the communities I went to were mostly clannish, and unhelpful (not that that stopped me). Should I expect that here as well? That would really suck, because I like this game series better than any of them. I'm not haunting the Doom3 forums...

And to stay on topic, a city map that most people can live with, as well as floorplans for areas, would really help with what I would like to eventually do with this game series.

Szandor on 14/9/2005 at 15:17

Quote Posted by kamyk

Why is it that everytime I find a game I want to mod for, there are always people who try to shoot me down?

Because you have a t-shirt with a targeting circle?

Quote Posted by kamyk

Should I expect that here as well?

Generally speaking, no. There is no clan structure here and any hostility or aggression that may be around is more often directed at Eidos for not doing what we want them to than on eachother.

I think that the overall mood and story of Thief attract people who find the complexity of the world intriguing and that these people would rather work together towards an end than brag about how many frags their clan accumulated in the last competition. With most FPS games you have people who enjoy running around like crazy, shooting eachother with big guns. With Thief you have people who truly enjoys sitting still for an hour, just to work out the optimal way past a guard. Who seems more aggressive?

I think this thread is aperfect example that we can both give and take constructive criticism. Where would we be today with the map if everyone had just said "my way is the truth" and then ignored everyone else?

Quote Posted by kamyk

And to stay on topic, a city map that most people can live with, as well as floorplans for areas, would really help with what I would like to eventually do with this game series.

And what is it you want to do? I have to agree that in the end I want a detailed map, but also that we have to start big and decide on the bigger issues first. My advise is the same as above: Go for it and show us what you find! If the actual levels can help us it will be great, but unfortunately I don't think they will to any bigger degree.

Solabusca on 14/9/2005 at 16:32

Quote Posted by kamyk

Yes, one. Why is it that everytime I find a game I want to mod for, there are always people who try to shoot me down?

kamyk... I answered your question honestly. This thread's over four years old, and there's still debate about things (which I think is a good thing). From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you've basically said "Why don't you just map out all the in-game maps and put them together?"

To which the answer is simple - the in-game maps are not the sum total of the areas represented, but are instead representative sections. No snark there, just letting you know the reason!

Quote:

I have modded for Doom, Blood, Half-life, Sims, and Sims2, and in every one of those cases, the communities I went to were mostly clannish, and unhelpful (not that that stopped me). Should I expect that here as well? That would really suck, because I like this game series better than any of them. I'm not haunting the Doom3 forums...

Well, given that the Editor's Guild exists and that the community is very supportive of anyone interested in creating fan-missions, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Take a look in the specific subforums to see!

The map-project itself isn't specifically being created for modding purposes, but to add an extra level of reality to the setting. We know that the developers worked from a real map for their setting, and we're doing the best we can to create it with the information they've provided.

Quote:

And to stay on topic, a city map that most people can live with, as well as floorplans for areas, would really help with what I would like to eventually do with this game series.

Well, people have been working at it for four years (my first post to the thread was in August 2001!), trying to come up with a map we can agree on, shows how much effort is being put into it.

Given the fact that we're trying to reconcile in-game information and dialogue into a tangible outline of the City. If you're trying to come up with an exact street-map, complete with house-maps and interiors, I'll wish you luck - but remember that almost all Thief missions take place in self-contained locations with little reference to the surrounding area, barring Ambush, Courier, LOTP and the city sections in TDS, you're going to have a bit of a time of it. I'll wish you luck, and will be interested in seeing the final results, but expect debate on whatever you present... we tend to feel strongly about things here.

[EDIT: Okay, now back to the topic at hand - Mugala, Doc_Brown, 242 and str8g8... how're things percolating with you folks?]

.j.

bukary on 14/9/2005 at 19:46

I've got one more question. Does word "Pavelock" (in "Pavelock Prison") has any "secret" meaning?

Spymaster on 14/9/2005 at 20:35

Quote Posted by bukary

I've got one more question. Does word "Pavelock" (in "Pavelock Prison") has any "secret" meaning?

A combination of words?

padlock
pave = brukować, wykładać (kamieniami?)

or

Pavelock - because its cells are (with their prisoners locked) under the City streets?

Edit: The cells can be also under the stone wall which separetes the Docks from SQ.

Solabusca on 15/9/2005 at 00:28

I'll go with the second assessment - it's like referring to the prision as Stonewall - the lock is paved shut - pave-lock.

Good analysis, Spymaster.

.j.