str8g8 on 12/9/2005 at 14:56

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Agreed, I don't think it sways the argument too far one way or the other ... still thinking :erg:

By the way Sol, do you have much knowledge of the FMs? That's one big can of worms right there, but I would be interested in how some of the major contributions (Calendra, T2X, and so on) might be used to expand the City somewhat ... but I have very little experience of them, having played only a few.

Sxerks on 12/9/2005 at 18:00

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??? Did you read my comment "the Mage Towers are beyond the city, so the arrow on the keepers map points to a location outside the city"
I think you need to get more sleep.


As for the T2X barricaded section of the Old Quarter, there are two sections on the Old Quarter map ( to the North and the West) where there is no wall labeled, so the barricade could be expanded easily.

Szandor on 12/9/2005 at 20:33

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This is, of course, assuming the language of the City has developed in the same way the english language has. (Wich is probably the easiest way to go.) Also, I think "shale" can be derived from more words than this. By the way, we know there is reasonably shallow lava activity under the city. This means that the rocks will probably not be sedementary but magmatic in origin. Therefore, a bridge made out of shale is not probable. (Unless the shale was imported from other parts, wich may be a possibility given the IRL common use of shale as building material.)



With this, do you mean a marketplace built from stone or for stone selling/purchasing? I believe the latter is more probable since SM is a rather large area compared to an ordinary marketplace. SM was probably the place where stone for building the city was ordered and finished. (This would probably indicate a placement by the river, since stonecrafting craves water and water is easier to transport on than roads. Also, it would make the hinted at importing of shale easier.)


Here are some other ideas of where the names came from. (I will assume language evolved the same way in the City as IRL. I also use the str8g8 map.)

Old Quarter
This is obviously the oldest part of the city and was in all likelyhood only given a name after other sections were. My theory is that it was built on top of an island in the middle of a bay. As the city grew, the bay was filled up and it became a river instead. This would explain the multitude and inconsistancy of the canals mentioned somewere before.

New Quarter, North Quarter, South Quarter
Should be quite obvious names... These parts show how the city first expanded, beginning with NewQ. The new placement of the marketplace (New Market) indicate that trading was important and therefore, that part of the bay was probably first bridged and then completely filled - explaining why the river bends to the east and not west.

Newmarket
The new market area, moved there from the now sealed section as trade with western cities increased. Before the bay was filled up, there was probably a small port there as well.

Hightowne
While str8g8 sets this as a part of NorthQ, I think it should be either considered a part of its own or a part of New Quarter. Its name implies a sense of "this place is a wee bit better" and is perfectly located beside NM to be a good place for merchants and nobles to live in.

Downtowne
This indicates an area down from (south of) the normal residantial area. It is a normal name for a city section with many official buildings and functions, as well as trading (wich has since been moved to NewM). It is probably the first named section.

Stonemarket
A market for stone carving and such. It was not moved with NewM, but already had good access to water and was probably harder - as well as less important - to move.

Sealed Section
I will have to think about this name a while longer, it constantly slips my mind.

Shalesbridge
If the shale does indeed derive from the stone, Shalesbridge should probably be positioned closer to StoneM. It sounds as if the first bridge made out of shale in the city - or perhaps the only one - gave name to this area. That bridge is probably positioned by Stonemarket.

Darkside
Sounds like a nickname för a bad piece of turf, having lots of nasty people in it. It is most likely on the outer parts of the city, where demand for new housing made the city build bad buildings in quantity. It's a suburban 'hood...

Shoalsgate
This section should probably be repositioned to sit somewhere else. The name implies a watchingstation positioned on a shoal, something that would probably be more suited on the westernmost parts of str8g8:s Shalesbridge, right by the bend.

Auldale
As noted before me, this is probably an old form of "old valley". This indicates that Aulddale was a small village of its own at first, but grew into the city creating an agglomerat. The village name stayed.

Dayport, North Dayport, South Dayport, Eastport
Like Aulddale, I believe that Dayport might gave been a small village as well, concentrated on trading via shiplanes. It was probably just an extension of Aulddale and the City. North, South and East are logical names when the port expanded.

Wayside, Docks
These are the new docks on the side of the river where the road is. Simple, huh?


I suppose that's it for now. I'll think about this some more and maybe there'll be a brief history of the growth of the city in the RPG.

Shadowcat on 13/9/2005 at 00:11

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kamyk: Assuming that by "floorplans" you mean the actual in-game layout of the streets and buildings, then...

(a) From what I've read, the in-game experience is already a very significant factor in the way that the dedicated folks working on this project have put everything together.

(b) However taken on their own, the in-game levels would undoubtably form a significantly smaller portion of the City than the various 'parchment' maps do.

(c) Moreover, I'm pretty certain that the various levels do not conveniently slot together like a jigsaw puzzle, even when the game implies that they ought to.

In short, I doubt you can generate a useful map solely in that manner. The in-game experience is simply another set of evidence being used to determine the best possible layout.

Shadowcat on 13/9/2005 at 05:34

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Again, I believe that the in-game levels are being taken into account when trying to establish these things. The problem is that there are significant contradictions when you take everything into account, so the fact that the game shows something one way doesn't necessarily mean that's the best answer.
I think it's already part of the process, just without going to the extent of actually creating the plans in the way you suggest.

Having said that, a top-down view of all the in-game City streets and buildings would be kinda neat to have.

Until the district boundaries are firmly established (or agreed upon, at least), there's just no point in adding more detail. IIRC there are certainly intentions to add such details when the time comes. It was discussed earlier in the thread. If you read through it all you'll get a good understanding of what's involved.