Solabusca on 5/9/2005 at 07:56

---

Dude. Click on any of the blue links, and you'll see what's been worked up. There's been something like six iterations of the str8g8 map alone.

.j.

MorbusG on 5/9/2005 at 12:55

---

Ah, nice idea st8g8. I did the same (http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief/) thing.
I've updated my (http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief/mikko_t3_12.png) map a little again.
I guess it's time for me to explain my reasoning behind the placements (these things are known, but repeating them doesn't hurt, I hope).

South quarter
I like to think New Market as a subdistrict of south quarter.
Garrett's home in T3 is entirely certain, as the water fountain is right next to it in-game.
The location of waterfountain can be seen at least from the ending cutscene of T3.

Location of New market is somewhat certain, as it needs to be positioned so, that on it's southern part should be Garrett's home from T1/2 (as seen from TDP assassins-map), and on it's northeast side should be old quarter. This poses a problem, though, as Mugla said: relation and distance of New Market <-> Shalebridge (the oh, so well known conversation of rivers being low). I'll get back to that a bit later. The hometurf mark on the map can indeed be interpreted as a more general meaning; ie. South quarter.
Moving it (assassins-/keepers grotto-map) more up north basically means also making Old quarter larger.

Garrett's home from T1/2 is a bit more tricky, as it can be placed in several ways. I placed it next to one of the larger streets, quite close to G's apartment in T3, so that the ambush-map from T2 lines roughly so that graveyard from T2 and T3 line up. The streets don't look pretty this way, but I've taken some artistic liberty to rotate the bottom part of ambush for approx. 45 degrees.

Interestingly enough, no-one noticed that I had flipped vertically the T3 South quarter map. My reasoning was pretty simple: in T3 at one point you can take a shortcut to Fort Ironwood via black alley. On original map, it would have pointed to west! Also, pagan tunnels would have come up in ~Stone market! I know you guys don't like rotating or flipping maps, but this just *had* to be done.

Wayside Docks
At first I wanted to put Rampones as close to Crippled Burrick-bar as possible, but seeing the Docks district in-game compass needle in T3 actually points to east, I wanted to break a compromise and rotated T3 Docks 45 degrees (because you can't see the east-shore, only sea).
This ruled out Rampones at that location, as the only place where T3-Docks can be placed when rotated, is on the east side.

Old Quarter
I like to think Stone Market and a general area called Down towne both part of the Old Quarter. Down towne could very well be also spanned across other districts. Somehow the word "downtown" means the center of a city to me.
Also, keeper compound is described in one of the T3 briefings as being "in the heart of the city", which also gives me the feeling of being in the center of the city. Having said that, unfortunately keeper library is closer to Downtowne than Keeper compound.
Old quarter is crowded. One of my main objectives was a logical placement and relation of Keeper compound and Keeper libraries. If you take the photoshop layered file, you can enable the compound layers to see how it works out. Other than that, I'm not entirely happy with the looks of my Old Quarter layout.
I wanted to create some relation between the sealed section and the walls around new market. New market walls, as they are, don't make much sense: if they are to prevent attackers from north, why would the rich people be on that side of wall which gets run over? The only logical assumption in addition to that, was the street name Auldale street. It does seem logical that a street of that name would go to Auldale.

New Quarter
There was no other reasoning for the location than that it's on opposite side of Old Quarter (which, in my opinion, isn't a necessity), and making South Quarter look more like in center of city.

North Quarter
Again, no logical reasoning behind placement... well, it's in north. Heh.

Eastport
Well, I thought it was nicer to swap placement of eastport/dayport since Baron's way keeps going east after Dayport, and the other road intersects it N-S.

Dayport
"I live near Dayport, and used to have nice view of the mountains. Every morning used to watch sunrise, now that metal mostrosity" etc. Which basically means it has to be as east as you can get.

Auldale
Not much logical reasoning behind this one. I think I copied it from str8g8.

What's missing?
Man, we have one of us *living* in Shalebridge, and we still can't be certain of it's location! T3 in-game would put it somewhere in/near Old Quarter, but taking into account every evidence, it seems the second evidence nullifies the third, and so on. If I had put it in Old Quarter, it
a) wouldn't be on the opposite side of The River
b) wouldn't fit in there.

So what I'm going to do, is list all the alternatives, one more time (I think I have a couple of new ones)

1. Shalebridge above sealed section
- not on the other side of river
+ possible logical reason for relation with new market

2. Shalebridge above Auldale
- bad contrast. Old money and thugs
+ other side of river

3. Grotto map is flipped vertically, plus the river in it is The River, plus New Market is a nickname for Stone Market.
- Eh?
- Lol

Well, there wasn't that many alternatives after all. :)
Anyway, great work everyone! Keep it coming!

Solabusca on 5/9/2005 at 18:28

---

Nice work on the Cityscape, str8g8! Very, very nice work indeed.

.j.

kamyk on 5/9/2005 at 21:50

---

Very nice work people. I have been fascinated with this idea since I started playing with TDS, and discovered that the map portals seemed to have some inconsistencies in terms of location/destination geographically speaking.

I will have to keep up with this thread. I'd really love to make an FM incorporating all of the districts from all of the games if it is ever consistently possible.

MorbusG on 6/9/2005 at 11:20

---

Well, T3 South Quarter map would have to be microscopicly tiny so that the pagan grounds (the one you come into after T3 pagan tunnels) wouldn't pop up in the middle of the city. There is no way to make it fit, because the water fountain can't be moved. Flipping the map was the only solution.
Doc_Brown's prophecy is catching up on me it seems. :p