Mapping out The City.

Doc_Brown on 19/8/2005 at 06:25

Quote Posted by Doc_Brown

I wonder... would it be possible to include the section of Old Quarter sandwiched here between Hightowne, New Market, Downtown, and Shalebridge road as a part of New Market as well? 'twould solve the 'walk across' comment, unless there's some evidence to block such a move.

Just to clarify, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/Doc_Brown/Miscellaneous/newmarket.jpg) this is what I was suggesting.

Quote Posted by mol

I've said it before and I say it again, this is hands-down the most consistently interesting thread in the whole of TTLG. My admiration for the primus motors of this fascinating thread holds no bounds.

This truly makes Thief feel even more real. It's almost as if the place could've existed, yet not, much like the Middle-Earth.

Astounding work, I'm quite simply in awe of it all.

Cheers, mate, to you and all the rest. :thumb:

Quote Posted by sysqc

A-ha! For some odd reason, I didn't come to think of that. Yes, makes perfect sense now. Sorry for taffing.

Not at all. Taff away. ;)

Quote Posted by sysqc

Man, you have good imagination.

It's been said. :laff:

Quote Posted by str8g8

Personally I think this feels a bit of a cop-out.

I'm inclined to agree, but the beauty of it is we don't have to resolve the matter ourselves. If a person, looking at the map and considering the quandary, doesn't buy that Gilver would go that far, they can assume there's more than one pub by that name (without our having to actually mark it on the map). Otherwise, they can just accept that the listed pub is the one he went to. Win-win.

Quote Posted by Solabusca

it's sort of weakened my idea that Shalebridge may possibly be a subsection of the Old Quarter

Don't worry mate, we tried to take that path originally and reached the same end. It's why we devised Shalebridge Road, you know. Just don't let it get you down too much, we value your contributions and would miss them were you to simply lurk.

But I am glad we got DeWall sorted out...

str8g8 on 19/8/2005 at 14:04

Doc_Brown: regarding New Market remember (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/str8g8/TG_keeper_map.jpg) this map shows Old Quarter right there :erg:

The servants comments don't necessarily mean New Market is right next to Shalebridge, only that it is close enough for New Market residents to be horrified at the thought of Shalebridge residents crossing the river unchecked.

Also, I think you're right about The Crippled Burrick - why not let people make up their own minds about these things? :)

So, the present layout seems to be weathering the storms pretty well. Dare I go in and add some street names, and put in Mugla's new roads ...

One recurring problem is the size of the map, it's getting very difficult to fit everything in and keep it small enough to post on photobucket. Think I might have to sort out some web space ...

cheers
str8g8

MorbusG on 19/8/2005 at 16:23

Quote Posted by str8g8

The servants comments don't necessarily mean New Market is right next to Shalebridge, only that it is close enough for New Market residents to be horrified at the thought of Shalebridge residents crossing the river unchecked.

Hmm, isn't it also possible to think that the people saying "wouldn't new market love that" also mean it in a good way: new market would love it if shalebridge people would go across river to other side?

Quote Posted by str8g8

Think I might have to sort out some web space ...

I am able to help with that, if you have problems finding space. PM me if that's the case for further info.

Solabusca on 19/8/2005 at 21:19

Quote Posted by sysqc

I don't think so - the inflection that the servant uses is sarcastic. Nope, it's still pretty clear what the people of Newmarket really think of Shalebridge.

.j.

Shadowcat on 22/8/2005 at 15:16

I've just read through all 28 pages of this thread. I remember seeing those ASCII maps years ago, but there have been a few replies made since then it would seem ;)

Suffice to say, just *reading* this took hours. I simply can't imagine how much time and effort you guys have expended on this project. The results thus far are extremely impressive (and more so given the difficult circumstances!).

Many thanks to you all!!

MorbusG on 25/8/2005 at 14:44

A small update on (http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief/mikko_t3_10.png) micromap.

It gets a bit crowded, I must admit. And the scalesizes vary. Hopefully not too much. But generally I think it gives a pretty good idea of what I'm after.

I haven't drawn any district borderlines yet, but one thing is sure: I'm not going to put newquarter or northquarter anywhere in there as a whole.

But the stuff seems to fit there ... sort of!
And of that I am happy. :)

EDIT: I have lousy memory. I wanted to throw some random thoughts about things discussed here lately. So here comes.
Regarding the different apartments of Garrett:
I thought about it in the perspective of Karras hiring Truart to get rid of Garrett, and since both have been disposed of, no reason to change apartment.
Regarding sealed section:
I somehow understood (maybe misunderstood?) that The Eye was behind the undead infestation, and since the eye hasn't been there for long time, the dead would rest?

2nd EDIT: I also put up a (http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief_books.txt) list of interesting (at least to me) list of things from the games (not including T3). Because my english is bad, there are lots of things wrong, I've marked the obvious ones.

Shadowcat on 25/8/2005 at 23:25

Quote Posted by sysqc

Regarding the different apartments of Garrett:
I thought about it in the perspective of Karras hiring Truart to get rid of Garrett, and since both have been disposed of, no reason to change apartment.

Strictly speaking, I think Garrett would definitely have moved after the City Watch descended on his house. Truart may be out of the way, but it's not as if Truart kept the location to himself, and it can't be remotely healthy for all those Watch members to know where he lives. He's still a criminal, after all (Remember that Sammy was presumably paid handsomely for revealing Garrett's address.)

Either approach would be fine for a map IMHO, but I certainly wouldn't use the death of of Karras and Truart as a compelling reason to NOT give him a new house post-T2!

str8g8 on 26/8/2005 at 08:36

Quote:

Strictly speaking, I think Garrett would definitely have moved after the City Watch descended on his house

Not to mention that if you go to G's apartment in T2 and go to G's house in T3 they look completely different. They are not even remotely similar in design or layout, nor are the streets around in any way comparable.

You can argue that they are quite close to each other of you like, for the purposes of your map, they could be a stone's throw apart, but they could never be the same place.

I see some convergence between the minmap and the general map (if you look at the rough hack I did earlier). You may well be right in the placement of Ambush map, it certainly is a lot neater.

It was also interesting reading through those quotes again. You didn't trancribe it all yourself though did you? I think it has been done before by others? I can't find a link just now.

The "darkside whoreskeep" caught my eye. Now, I wouldn't go as far as to suggest a new district, but it might be worth considering a kind of red light district called Darkside. The Docks would be a suitable location, but possibly also Shalebridge? Also, from Emil's journal we learned that one of the missions would have been a brothel, "Raid on Willard Square" so maybe Willard Square is in Darkside, and so in Docks\Shalebridge etc.

cheers
str8g8

MorbusG on 26/8/2005 at 10:09

Quote Posted by str8g8

This is true. I didn't compare them, I just draw conclusions of Truart hiring all the criminals for nightwatch, etc.

Quote Posted by str8g8

You can argue that they are quite close to each other of you like, for the purposes of your map, they could be a stone's throw apart, but they could never be the same place.

That strong opinion, eh? Fair enough.

Quote Posted by str8g8

It was also interesting reading through those quotes again. You didn't trancribe it all yourself though did you? I think it has been done before by others? I can't find a link just now.

Actually, I did :o
I did find one with all the cutscenes transcribed, but iirc, it didn't have all the conversations in it. Oh well, it was fun to do. Especially the Karras's ones in Sabotage. :cheeky:

Quote Posted by str8g8

but it might be worth considering a kind of red light district called Darkside.

It sounds good idea to me. Maybe, like you said, Shalebridge could be the location for it?

The Karras's words about precursors in Sabotage got me wondering. I read a Terry Pratchett book about nightwatch a while back, and it told a funny thing about the city of Ankh Mor-Pork: a couple of the nightwatch members ended up in what they thought were the sewers, but it turned out it was some "long lost street". So the city was build over and over again, and the previous cities sunk into the land. :joke:
Maybe the same kind of "old cities sunk" with The City, too? Lost city at the bottom, sunken citadel above that, pagan tunnels above that, etc.

Jadon on 26/8/2005 at 17:37

Wouldn't the sunken citadel be below the Lost City? Wait no, the lost city has lava, carry on.