Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
z-vap on 15/7/2005 at 23:01
In Mission 15, the Thieves Guild. There are a few references to other people. Most of the mission takes place down in the sewers, so actual "places" may not be directly referenced.
[SPOILER]This note was found with one of the bosses (Donal) right hand man, Magrin. Note the 5th line down.
NOTES TO SELF
- Fence loot from Lord Brosius job
- Transfer funds to foreign accounts
- Have Fredrik killed for disloyalty
- Feed kitty
- Meet with Lady Vallerius for info on Lord B.
- Hide key to Donal's Master Safe behind the secret panel in my room
She's a blue blood that is reference heavily in the Opera mission (17). And they're talking about Brosius. [/SPOILER]
Here's a page from the Accounts Payable from the Donal boss
[SPOILER] 768 Entertainment Exp.
236 Info from Viktoria
494 Cleaning
982 Air Freshener
245 Surveillance
385 Bribe to Deputy Meffan
100 Info from Court Jester Teichholtz
150 Bribe to Capt. Pearsall
625 Deliveries from Lesser Hrabota
1,300 Kickback for Constable Mahk
320 Downwinder Solus contract
Notice the second payout. [/SPOILER]
Again not sure if any of it means anything for the maps
z-vap on 15/7/2005 at 23:05
Here are several Notes from the Mages Guild mission.
[SPOILER]To Adept Al-Hayr,
Lt. Scarle disobeyed Capt. Regalio’s specific orders and ventured into the Tower of Fire. Needless to say he was ill prepared to deal with the trials of flame and lava that await all entrants. The charred corpse was brought to the laboratories where it will be put to good use. The fire can cleanse us, but it is not for the Commons. See to it that this incident serves as an example to others.
-Archmage Kahmin Ramin
I can finally get back to work, my apologies for being behind schedule on the new round of vivisection. The workmen have finally cleared out, having just finished walling up the last main entrance to those infernal sewers. The old sewers are still largely unmapped, but present too much of a security risk to be left. I find it amazing that they reach back to the city despite our distance from it. There is still the one secret entrance that we can use to traverse the sewers. The guards that patrol it will deal with anything unfortunate enough to struggle out of that muck.
- Adept Haseki Beyzar
Recovering the golden medallion of Saint Burringden will reward all the sweat I put into the endless hunt for those damned talismans. By selling it I will surely make some profit off of this ordeal. In all my years of service to the Hand I have never seen their efforts so thoroughly stymied. It’s almost as though one of their own had taken and hidden the talismans so completely that not even the archmages can find them.
- Capt. E. F. Regalio
Cellarer Abrucha,
We urgently need the chemicals last requested. Two days hence we’ll be sending young Lucca to the city. Have one of your helpers accompany him. Also, see if you can add 3 goats, a camel, and a burrick to the animals gathered for the next round of experiments.
- Adept Haseki Beyzar[/SPOILER]
Kinda interesting regarding Captains. These kinda show that the mages are somewhat removed from the city but not far away enough, since they're using police guards (Capt's, Lt's) and the sewer and travel references.
z-vap on 15/7/2005 at 23:25
Well, I was gonna do some overhead screenies of Mission 15 and 17 to show some directional observations, but it looks like my install has gone bonkers for some reason.
str8g8 on 16/7/2005 at 15:53
Lots going on here at the moment, I'm trying to keep up!
porterr: i donwloaded the latest upadate and it's looking good. Though i gotta say, plotting 3d models by hand is no fun at all, for anybody. Have you considered using the editor as your modeller? I think you can export an unreal text file (.t3d or something) which must be an open format, and it would be easy to build those simple shapes in the editor. All in all though, that's an awful lot of work where just a screenshot of the area would suffice? It does look cool though :D (just make sure you don't spread youself too thin! - I know how that feels ...)
thanks to those who posted Thief Gold info :thumb: but I don't see much that helps is with the map. Maybe I am missing something.
Quote:
I do remember a part in T1 05-cutscene, where G. meets Con. You can hear seagulls, and see the 'edge', meaning the waterfront quite close in the beginning. But, that's just an irrelevant piece for you, isn't it
mugla: Do I detect a note of sarcasm? I hope not. No information is irrelevant to me. You know as well as I do that the problem is more often fragmentary and circumstantial evidence and we all have to use our judgement as best we can. Constantine's mansion is currently located by the river in North Quarter ... I don't remember gulls myself, but gulls can travel quite far inland up an estuary, so that's fine.
sysqc: I'm still interested in what you have to say about Shalebridge, but I have little enough time to work on my map, let alone someone else's. You will have to pursue your ideas yourself until they become the accepted wisdom. But I gotta say, the Ambush map has to be SW of Shalebridge, and I don't see how that can work with your layout.
Remember what happens in Ambush? You start out at the Crippled Burrick and have to make your way to the north of the map to the Old Gate to get to Shalebridge or whatever? None of this makes sense in your layout. That's a big hurdle to overcome.
My advice is to keep an open mind and not get too attached to any single idea ... or you lose balance, as the Keepers might say. For instance, I still think the talisman map z-vap posted shows the main river, but ... well ... sometimes you have to let go.
z-vap: the mages towers are a bit of a puzzle. I think they are marked on the Thief World Map about a mile from the City. I guess there are explanations: perhaps they built on the foundations of an abandoned fort that was some kind of outpost of the city, and so were connected to the sewers and so on.
cheers
str8g8
MorbusG on 16/7/2005 at 17:31
Quote Posted by str8g8
sysqc: I'm still interested in what you have to say about Shalebridge, but I have little enough time to work on my map, let alone someone else's. You will have to pursue your ideas yourself until they become the accepted wisdom. But I gotta say, the Ambush map has to be SW of Shalebridge, and I don't see how that can work with your layout.
My idea was solely the placement of Shalebridge in the same area with Shalebridge cradle. After that, I just played around with the idea that not all of the "known" districts are written on the "official" thief3 map.
But, I have to dissagree with Shalebridge not being to the NE of ambush. Maybe you haven't checked out the new map I made (I've been working on it for the past 2 days. And I do mean the past 2 days, as WHOLE! DAMN YOU PEOPLE FOR GETTING ME AN ADDICTION! ;) )? Although I must admit it's a bit vague.
With that arrangement, one would start from the docks district in Ambush!.
I would be mighty glad to receive more points of errors from all about my interpretation!
(Remember; my goal was to put every known district inside the T3 map.)
Thanks! :thumb:
str8g8 on 19/7/2005 at 07:50
Quote:
My idea was solely the placement of Shalebridge in the same area with Shalebridge cradle. After that, I just played around with the idea that not all of the "known" districts are written on the "official" thief3 map.
No, I hadn't seen the new map. I think it has thrown up some interesting things. For instance, it means Garrett lives in the Docks in T2. It also makes the map a lot smaller overall. But there's a lot to like about your new map.
Some more things to throw at you:
Quote:
17. "Raputo, Warden of North Quarter, Shalebridge, Newmarket, New Quarter. Webster, Warden of Docks, Eastport, Dayport." (Ramirez's papers, T1)
In our layout the warden's districts form contiguous areas, whereas in yours they spread out; for instance, Shalebridge (operated by Raputo) is right in the middle of Webster's territory (between Docks and Eastport).
Quote:
38. "I've never seen the river so low. You can almost walk across at Shalebridge.""Wouldn't New Market love that." (Baffords servants, T1)
Also, can you explain the servants comments in light of your layout?
But what does everyone else think?
cheers
str8g8
IronsteffL on 19/7/2005 at 11:22
I think this is the most ambitious and investigated fan-made project I have ever seen and thats the reason why I just joined :D I didn't think it was possible to recreate the city just from small maps in the games and statements of npc's!
I don't think I'd be much help with mapping out the city, but are you planning to recreate, say, some kind of timeline for the city too? Some important events (like the fire and zombie incident of the sealed Old Quarter), landmarks, who built them, influential and other important people and so on? Placing families like Alarus and Quintus correctly into the history of the city, what they did in their lifetime and so on?
If so, I'd be very happy to play trough the games again to find some details about the history of the city and bring some more depth into this awesome project.
Keep up to great work! :thumb:
Greetz,
SteffL
Solabusca on 19/7/2005 at 11:53
Quote Posted by sysqc
I hope I'm not stirring things up too much, but to my eye the current map just seems too huge. But that could just be me.
Sadly, sysqc, I'm going to have to go with 'it's probably just you'. If anything, the map that str8g8 has produced is SMALLISH in comparison to the concept of the City, and the neighbourhoods listed seem much larger than they ought to be. Part of that, of course, is that we're never given
all the area names in the Thief games. There may be another twenty or thirty district names that we've never heard, because Garret doesn't frequent those areas.
To me, the City is larger than any other fantasy metropolis conceived - a mesh of Lankhmar, Sanctuary and London that sprawls out to the countryside.
MorbusG on 19/7/2005 at 22:24
Just a quick note (sorry if old news): the assassins map and the keeper map fit together perfectly, even without resizing.
So the roads can be copied pretty straight from assassins map.
