Mapping out The City.

CyberFish on 2/9/2001 at 20:36

Very intelligent points, Grundbegriff. Thinking about the theories again, there is little to choose between the two.

Crystals are found in numerous areas of stored water around the City. These crystals either formed there naturally, or were placed there.

Why would someone put water crystals in water? Possibly to store them, so that they don't dry out; or to ensure that they are fully saturated with water the following day. But why would so many people have water crystals anyway? If their only purpose is to deliver a brief splash of cold water, people might as well fill, say, a pig bladder with water and throw it.
Also note that the water cooler in Shoalsgate has about a dozen water crystals attatched to it. Why? Possibly to purify the water, possibly to store it without it evaporating in the drought conditions.
The only other reason for putting water crystals in the water is because they have a particular effect on it. Purification seems appropriate, simply because there is no other logical effect that the crystals could have on the water.
So, this line of reasoning indicates that crystals are either a means of storing water without is evaporating, spilling, or becoming dirty; or a means of purifying water. This is supported by the cost of crystals (50 gold is actually quite expensive, as the value of the coin stacks and other loot Garrett picks up will show.) and the water cooler in Shoalsgate. They couldn't have formed there naturally. Also, there are several water crystals in the rubbish skip outside the pub. They didn't form there as there was no water, so they must have been thrown away. Does anyone have any ideas what a pub landlord would want with water crystals?
Unfortunately, there are plenty of flaws in this theory. I don't need to list them here, as you have already pointed most of them out several times :)

The second theory, that the crystals formed naturally, is equally meritable. It explains the wide distribution of crystals across the City, and many other things that I'm too tired to bring up again.
The problem with this is that the crystals Garrett finds in sinks and so on are unlikely to have formed naturally, as the owner of the house would have probably found and removed them. Also, they would be very, very cheap if they formed so easily. Garrett may not even have to buy them, he could just walk around the City scooping them out of puddles :).

So, what I think is most likely is that the crystals found in baths, sinks and handbaisins, and the shoalsgate water cooler, were placed there for a purpose. It is unknown as to what this purpose is. The crystals found in ponds, and the small river in Constantine's mansion, formed there naturally. Forget about the water purification theory for the time being. It's plausible, but cannot be proved to be correct. It can't be proved wrong, either, except by a direct intervention from a former Looking Glass employee.

Oh, and the reason I said that water crystals don't run out when used for water purification is that, if they did run out, they wouldn't be cost-effective and people would simply boil the stuff. However, an automatic water purification and filtration system for only 50 gold is definately worth it. (Thinking about it again, 50 gold might not actually be all that much. The items Garrett steals are only worth to him what he can sell them for, which is probably only a fraction of their real value.)

And please forget what I said about water crystals being handed out to the poor and needy. That was just plain stupid :rolleyes:

Richard on 2/9/2001 at 21:57

In my mind, the main reason I don't believe they FORM in wash basins is because if they're valuable, they wouldn't be left there - they'd be removed.

I'm perfectly willing to consider the possibility they are storage devices for water - in the bonehoard someone has a bucket and water crystal lying suggestively beside it. A fairly domestic purpose... ;)

The reason I thought of them as water purifiers is that they're often found in the cleaner, blue water rather than the mucky green stuff I've encountered so far in TG (Just started Guild level) Mind you, it was ALL blue in T2...

Of course if I wanted to be really picky I could say that if water crystals formed in water we should find them in various stages of development... but that's just stupid, it IS a computer game... :eek:

[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: Silencer ]

Oliver Gregory on 2/9/2001 at 23:17

I believe water crystals and all crystals are natural...for example, why would the mecahnists in Kidnap place fire crystals with lava?

Grundbegriff on 2/9/2001 at 23:42

Quote:

Originally posted by CyberFish:
[qb]Purification seems appropriate, simply because there is no other logical effect that the crystals could have on the water.

Why do people say that sort of thing? :D

If we let the imagination roam freely, then crystals in water might:
... purify the water
... flavor the water
... mineralize the water
... cool the water
... warm the water
... stabilize the temperature of the water
... perfume the water
... cover the water with a protective film
... fill the water with protective radiation
... make the water more likely to produce crystals
... prevent the evaporation of the water
...

Given that off-the-cuff list, the notion that there's "no other logical effect that the crystals could have" seems to reflect some unusual and perplexing version of "logic". ;)

Anyhow, my point isn't to foreclose these possibilities, but to ask for evidence and reasons in support of claims we make about the gameworld. The simplest explanation that accounts for all the observable facts and unavoidable inferences is likely the best explanation, all else being equal.

Grundbegriff on 2/9/2001 at 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Silencer:
In my mind, the main reason I don't believe they FORM in wash basins is because if they're valuable, they wouldn't be left there - they'd be removed.

Why? It seems reasonable to suppose that a moist environment is just the sort of place where you'd want to store your water crystals.

I'll bet the last thing Farkus did after a long workday was put his water arrows back in the vat.

Here's a possible scenario: Noble discovers water crystals forming in the sink, and shouts "Don't empty the basin, Jenivere! I want to preserve these crystals for a non-rainy day!"

Richard on 3/9/2001 at 19:26

... and gets them pinched when some visitor walks in to use the loo and takes a fancy to the valuable water crystal. :p

Seriously, if you had valuable crystals forming would YOU leave them in the tiolet?

If that's the case, the logical thing to do would be for the noble to have a SECURE water source in a locked room, where any water crystals can be brought at once.

Obviously water crystals must have some application, for the simple fact they are stored for use - shelves, racks in Shoalsgate, on bodies of dead thieves in the bonehoard. They could be used for water storage yes, but then wouldn't they have a flask or skin for it rather than a valuable crystal?

vesuvius on 3/9/2001 at 20:16

I have not taken the time to read the entire thread, but I feel maybe an 'exact' and 'extrapolated' version would be better than combining the fan mission info which can potentially go against the intent of the initial design with the original. I assume you are aware that at the end of the haunted cathedral mission in thief 1 there is a full color map of much of the city, and combining this with the information from the in-game maps of life of the party, assassin, and ambush can provide you with a fairly full picture of the central city sections, although obviously some locales are too far off (i.e. docks) to be shown these sources are good starts.

Grundbegriff on 3/9/2001 at 22:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Silencer:
... and gets them pinched when some visitor walks in to use the loo and takes a fancy to the valuable water crystal.... If that's the case, the logical thing to do would be for the noble to have a SECURE water source in a locked room, where any water crystals can be brought at once.

That's rather extreme, no? Why wouldn't such a noble feel at liberty to leave things of value in the open in her own home, which happens (as often as not) to be guarded by a security squad?

I don't know about you, but I leave valuable things in the open at my place; and my place is quite a bit less secure and exclusive than, say, Bafford's Manor or the Manor of Clan Gervaisius.

Quote:

Obviously water crystals must have some application, for the simple fact they are stored for use - shelves, racks in Shoalsgate, on bodies of dead thieves in the bonehoard.

Well, among other possible uses, they're used for water arrows. Surely Garrett isn't the only rascal in town to use such things.

Quote:

They could be used for water storage yes, but then wouldn't they have a flask or skin for it rather than a valuable crystal?

Pineapples could be used for pineapple juice storage, yes, but then wouldn't they have a bottle or can for pineapple juice rather than a valuable pineapple? ;)

[ September 03, 2001: Message edited by: Grundbegriff ]

uhszombie on 27/9/2001 at 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Naug:
I encourage everyone to continue with this miracalous effort to map the city :D

I couldn't agree more (or to put it another way "bump")

Dr_Octogon on 1/10/2001 at 07:22

The one thing most people agree on here is that crystals form in standing water, like a lake, puddle etc. Then if that’s true wouldn't plenty sources of water be pure naturally, anyway? The waterworks in "song of the caverns" collected its water from the underground lake with water crystals already growing in it. Wouldn't the water already be pure then? The point is, if the waters already pure, why bother purifying it again? Perhaps because the pipes aren't too clean, but isn't that a pretty expensive luxury, purifying your water twice? For example I don't think the police budget would cover something that’s not even completely necessary.

Also, why are there water crystals in puddles? They can't have been there for more than a week possibly two, and if they're so valuable then why hasn't anyone bothered to take it over that period (unless it only formed very recently).

But, yeah, um. Mapping! Yes!