Starker on 26/5/2017 at 21:11
There's no point. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
In any case, if you think religious freedom is a small thing to sacrifice, and that banning nearly 2 billion people is an appropriate reaction to isolated* acts of violence, it speaks for itself. Muslims as a whole are not responsible for radical extremists any more than christians are responsible for Army of God.
* in the sense of not being related to the vast vast majority of ordinary muslims just trying to live their lives, just in case it wasn't clear
Chimpy Chompy on 26/5/2017 at 23:59
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
I also challenge you to point out where I've suggested "inhumane" treatment of immigrants. It's much simpler than that: as anyone from the U.K. should remember from dealing with the IRA terrorism is inextricably linked to organized crime. You don't have to actually start exterminating immigrants or any of that shit you think right wingers want to do. All you need to do is start going after the individual mosques, storefronts, etc. that are involved in the money laundering, trafficking, and other crimes that support terrorism. Make things a less fertile ground in the U.K. And they will go elsewhere. Just because the entities involved are Muslim owned doesn't mean they should get a pass.
I may have gotten you mixed up with Krush who's sat there fantasizing about firing muslims out of the west with a really big catapault.
But you do seem have taken a stance on his side, and taking swipes at those who would be treat refugees and muslims decently.
Goldmoon Dawn on 27/5/2017 at 00:08
Quote Posted by Queue
And believe you me, it was a nasty paper-cut.
So brave...
Azaran on 27/5/2017 at 00:23
Is there an objective study of religious violence over say the last 20 years, with statistics and percentages to show which religions are the biggest offenders? Because that would help clear things up
Thor on 27/5/2017 at 12:51
Quote Posted by Starker
There's no point. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
In any case, if you think religious freedom is a small thing to sacrifice, and that banning nearly 2 billion people is an appropriate reaction to isolated* acts of violence, it speaks for itself. Muslims as a whole are not responsible for radical extremists any more than christians are responsible for Army of God.
* in the sense of not being related to the vast vast majority of ordinary muslims just trying to live their lives, just in case it wasn't clear
Nope, I only think that a religion that is fundamentally opposing to western values has no place in a western society. The fundamental tenants of islam itself justify violence. The peaceful muslims that integrate in our society are the ones that actually betray their original religion. Or we can soften it by saying they "adjust" it. Nobody has a problem with people that integrate in a society, pay their taxes and don't cause trouble. I believe it is probably the majority, but I'm unconvined of the "vastness" of it.
Only you didn't have enough "self awareness" (to misuse this term in a similar way that you did) to read what I actually said.
Quote Posted by Azaran
Is there an objective study of religious violence over say the last 20 years, with statistics and percentages to show which religions are the biggest offenders? Because that would help clear things up
I do doubt it, as that would risk offending people like Starker and his hatred for the culture he inherited.
Politicians own whatever parts of science they want to own (government funding) to further their political power. Also 2+2=4
Starker on 27/5/2017 at 13:18
Christians have been "betraying" their religion for a while now, despite what their holy book says.
Also, you are not the one to talk about western values when you so casually suggest trampling on them.
Anyway, come back when you have a more nuanced worldview than "western civilisation is being destroyed by libruls who are hating their culture and letting just anyone in" and "why don't we just ban all muslims?".
Gryzemuis on 27/5/2017 at 13:57
Quote Posted by Thor
a religion that is fundamentally opposing to western values has no place in a western society.
Most religions are fundamentally opposing western (modern) values. Men are worth more than women, people who do not believe in your god are worth less than believers. Homosexuals should not exist. People should not oppose hierarchy and oppression and injustice, but just suffer through their lives, thinking there is a reward when they die. Etc, etc.
Christianity has pretty low influence in western Europe these day (UK, Germany, Benelux, Scandinavia, even France I think). But in the US its only gaining influence, it seems.
If you want to make the world a better place, religion should lose all its power. Not just in the west, but everywhere in the world. Why don't you want Islam in the west, but you don't care about Islam in the Middle East, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Turkey, etc ? Do you think it is fun for women, homosexuals, intellectuals, atheists, scientists, etc, to live in those countries ? Do they not deserve a peaceful life, like you and other people in western countries ?
Melan on 27/5/2017 at 17:25
[video=youtube;qJh6EQ5gv7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJh6EQ5gv7g[/video]
the thread
Tony_Tarantula on 28/5/2017 at 00:07
Meanwhile, the British Police sent in a Helicopter and what seems to be the equivalent of a SWAT team in to size......a jukebox that played a song making fun of Bin Laden.
I shit you not: (
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/bin-laden-song-police-party-13097525)
Quote:
Most religions are fundamentally opposing western (modern) values. Men are worth more than women, people who do not believe in your god are worth less than believers. Homosexuals should not exist. People should not oppose hierarchy and oppression and injustice, but just suffer through their lives, thinking there is a reward when they die. Etc, etc.
Christianity has pretty low influence in western Europe these day (UK, Germany, Benelux, Scandinavia, even France I think). But in the US its only gaining influence, it seems.
Incorrect. What has increased is the amount of US media showing Christians as crazy, deranged rednecks. The number of Americans who actually go to church services or describe themselves as believing in Christian theology is at an all time low and continuing to decline.
That said I don't think you have a clue what the theology of those "religions" actually says. It's only the ones who have a literalist interpretation of Abrahamic texts who believe that kind of thing. Most sects(including Catholics, the world's largest single Christian sect) explicitly disavow the doctrine of a literal interpretation: (
https://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/pbcinter.htm)
I challenge you to find ANY single place that the doctrines you mentioned ("homosexuals should not exist", "Men are worth more than women", or "people who do not believe in your god are worth less than believers") anywhere in the official teachings of the top 3 American churches: Catholic, Baptist, or Methodist.
Although I should note the inherent moral contradiction of Protestantism: their churches were founded on the believe that there is no objective moral truth (kind of like modern day neoliberals) so only the conscience can guide morality, yet also believe that if you don't practice their exact form of religion then you're going to Hell. I don't see how you reconcile those two ideas.
Renzatic on 28/5/2017 at 00:25
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Incorrect. What has increased is the amount of US media showing Christians as crazy, deranged rednecks. The number of Americans who actually go to church services or describe themselves as believing in Christian theology is at an all time low and continuing to decline.
Oh, Jesus Christ. Far Cry 5 shows up on the scene, and now everyone is screaming about how "THE MEDIA" is portraying Christians and conservatives as blah blah blah and so and so.
I swear, people like you, Tony, are the whiniest, most obnoxious fucks I've ever seen in my entire life. For all the talk of the so-called liberal snowflake, I've never seen anyone so desperately seek out reasons to paint themselves as the prosecuted few as well as you mouthbreathers.
