SD on 17/3/2007 at 23:24
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
I believe StD was refering to the various wild life killed by free roaming dogs & cats...birds, mice, snakes, squirrels, lizards, frogs...all those lovely gifts kitty brings home.
I wasn't referring to them, I actually forgot those... I was thinking more about the thousands of animals that are slaughtered each year to be turned into dog or cat food. It's why I would never keep a carnivorous pet; it'd be massively hypocritical of me to be a vegetarian and then to live a lifestyle that would condemn thousands of animals to death anyway - I feel bad enough eating cheese and eggs.
Aerothorn on 17/3/2007 at 23:42
Dogs, like humans, are omnivorous - I believe they can live a healthy vegetarian life. I could be wrong, though.
Edit: Yep. Despite being classified as carnivores by many, as they eat a lot of meat in the wild, they don't need it (unlike cats). "Domestic dogs can survive healthily on a reasonable and carefully designed vegetarian diet, particularly if eggs and milk products are included."
pavlovscat on 18/3/2007 at 00:05
StD, I didn't know you are vegetarian. I guess I'm a hypocrit. I believe in animal rights, but I am a meat eater & live with a bunch of blood-thirsty, obligatory carnivores. Some animals were born to be dinner. What is your take on zoo animals, especially the large predators that must have meat?
I have a vegan friend who has successfully kept her dogs healthy for years on a vegetarian diet. She prepares their food daily. Dogs seem to be OK with that. Cats, however, need a lot of animal protien. That is one reason dogs love litter box snacks. Cat turds are high in protein. Yummy!! :eww:
SD on 18/3/2007 at 01:26
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
What is your take on zoo animals, especially the large predators that must have meat?
I really don't have a problem with that at all, given the important role of zoos in conserving the animals we've managed to decimate in the wild. Most of the large predators you'll see in zoos these days are a good deal scarcer in their native habitats than they were just a few hundred years ago. If you're killing cows to feed a captive lion, you're just simulating what would happen if that lion was in the wild, where he really ought to be. Clearly this is a diferent kettle of fish to domestic cats and dogs, which are artefacts of humanity.
Aero: it's true dogs are omnivores, and can be raised happily on a vegetarian diet (with care) but they're definitely further towards the carnivore end of that sliding scale between out-and-out meat-eater and obligate herbivore. The pointy teeth are a dead giveaway ;) and that's why they're formally designated as carnivores. Humans, by contrast, are nearer the veggie end.
pavlovscat on 18/3/2007 at 02:08
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
I really don't have a problem with that at all, given the important role of zoos in conserving the animals we've managed to decimate in the wild. Most of the large predators you'll see in zoos these days are a good deal scarcer in their native habitats than they were just a few hundred years ago. If you're killing cows to feed a captive lion, you're just simulating what would happen if that lion was in the wild, where he really ought to be. Clearly this is a diferent kettle of fish to domestic cats and dogs, which are artefacts of humanity.
The human race's capacity for destruction of other species is tragic, but well documented. Preservation efforts are often too little, too late. These beautiful wild creatures suffer thanks to humanity's desire to subjugate everything around them: animals, environment, other humans.
Modern day dogs & cats are a reflection of many generations of human selected breeding programs. They are truly artefacts of humanity. Humans are responsible for directing the development of wild creatures into servants - even more so with dogs as they were already pack animals and required less deviation from the original model. That is a large reason I feel the need to do what I can for these pets. Ultimately, humanity is responsible for them.
Vasquez on 18/3/2007 at 09:24
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
I'd quite like a pet myself, but I just can't justify spending all that money on an animal when millions of humans are dying from hunger and malnutrition around the world.
I assume you donate all the money it would take to feed and keep a pet to humanitarian aid?
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
Spay or neuter your pets!! Please. :grr:
Done, ma'am, and one better - spayed m'self, too :joke:
Malygris on 18/3/2007 at 19:30
My dog's still got his balls. Gives me something to kick at when I need to mean him up before a fight.
pavlovscat on 18/3/2007 at 22:14
Oh, boy, they've updated their list. Now the big boys (Science Diet, Iams & Eukanuba) are also being recalled. It's still only wet food, though.
(
http://www.menufoods.com/recall/index.html) http://www.menufoods.com/recall/index.html
ilweran on 19/3/2007 at 11:49
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
Modern day dogs & cats are a reflection of many generations of human selected breeding programs. They are truly artefacts of humanity. Humans are responsible for directing the development of wild creatures into servants - even more so with dogs as they were already pack animals and required less deviation from the original model. That is a large reason I feel the need to do what I can for these pets. Ultimately, humanity is responsible for them.
I read a very interesting idea that the only animal humans really domesticated was the cat and the other animals largely domesticated themselves because being looked after by us gave them a survival advantage.
I do agree with you that we are responsible for the animals we've domesticated. I don't like the anti-pet animal rights lot but I don't like the term pet either. My cats are members of the family and I'm more their human than they are my cats. I know my place :cheeky:
pavlovscat on 19/3/2007 at 17:26
Do you recall where you read this? It sounds plausible & very interesting. I would love to read it myself.
Our cats are definitely family members. I took my name because I have been trained to respond to the cats, much as Pavlov's dogs were trained to drool at the ringing of a bell. But, I don't mind. The unconditional comfort, love & acceptance I receive from them makes it worthwhile.
