Uncia on 17/3/2007 at 22:50
I'm skeptical of the "become" part. It's not like we were some enlightened tree-huggers in the past and became corrupted by the evils of TV.
Starrfall on 17/3/2007 at 23:48
Fuck all the doubters that was fucking awesome RARRRRR.
Also it wasn't ALL mostly naked men there were boobs too. It's just that the ratio of male half naked to female half naked was about 5000 to 1.
Gingerbread Man on 18/3/2007 at 00:04
Yes, I certainly enjoyed 300. It was like if you took Braveheart and cut all the shit out of it. \o/
pavlovscat on 18/3/2007 at 00:13
Quote Posted by Uncia
I'm skeptical of the "become" part. It's not like we were some enlightened tree-huggers in the past and became corrupted by the evils of TV.
Yes, but now violence is commonplace everywhere, not just in movies or on TV. We've quit pretending violence is not a part of the human psyche. Things that would have shocked my grandparents barely get a second look now. That's progress?
Swiss Mercenary on 18/3/2007 at 00:36
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
Yes, but now violence is commonplace everywhere, not just in movies or on TV.
Last I checked, we typically don't have public executions, gladiator fights, or flagellations of convicts these days.
And I do believe that people have been beating eachother on the streets every so often since the dawn of time.
mopgoblin on 18/3/2007 at 01:32
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
Yes, but now violence is commonplace everywhere, not just in movies or on TV. We've quit pretending violence is not a part of the human psyche. Things that would have shocked my grandparents barely get a second look now. That's progress?
Well, your grandparents probably lived through a war that killed sixty million people. There hasn't been anything approaching that scale in recent years. I'm not sure there's significantly more violent crime these days, either. The media just like reporting it more than they used to.
pavlovscat on 18/3/2007 at 03:00
Quote Posted by Swiss Mercenary
Last I checked, we typically don't have public executions, gladiator fights, or flagellations of convicts these days.
And I do believe that people have been beating eachother on the streets every so often since the dawn of time.
Modern terrorist activities often involve televising executions. Instead of gladiators, we have more civilized violence like boxing or Ultimate Fight Championship (or hockey! LOL). And, as far as convicts go, they are thrown together in jail to beat the crap out of each other. Also, we've seen the type of torment unleashed on political prisoners. I feel the violence has been channeled, not eliminated or even reduced.
As far as street fights, today it has become the norm for people to be shot in a drive-by or carjacked. The victim doesn't even have to be involved, just wrong place, wrong time. And, then, there is my personal fave, road rage. Somebody cut you off? Just shoot them or run them off the road. Again, I feel the violence is still there, but it isn't confined to personal street fights. You don't have to be involved for bullets to make you just as dead.
Quote Posted by mopgoblin
Well, your grandparents probably lived through a war that killed sixty million people. There hasn't been anything approaching that scale in recent years. I'm not sure there's significantly more violent crime these days, either. The media just like reporting it more than they used to.
Yes, the media are in the middle of everything making sure no one misses out on the crime of the day. I agree this could give an elevated idea of the frequency of violent crimes. We even imbed them with our soldiers to make sure everyone can see what war is really like. Bad news sells. I agree that the volume of deaths is significantly lower in today's wars. However, I think that could be attributed not to a reduction in violence, but to advancements in weapons technology. You can now target specific people or places without ever getting close to them. Why send more soldiers out to die, when you can just press a button and target the Head Bad Dude? No need for direct combat, cut off the head and the body will die. You may be fighting a hydra and need to kill several heads, but eventually, if you hit enough of the heads, the body should die.
Swiss Mercenary on 18/3/2007 at 03:08
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
Modern terrorist activities often involve televising executions.
And before that, they were untelevised executions. What a great difference, there.
Considering that around here, OMIGODZ Terrorism is barely a contributor to violent crime, somehow, that doesn't cut it.
Quote:
Instead of gladiators, we have more civilized violence like boxing or Ultimate Fight Championship (or hockey! LOL).
More violent then gladiatorial contests? No? Then that doesn't help the claim of "Look more violence" any.
Quote:
And, as far as convicts go, they are thrown together in jail to beat the crap out of each other. Also, we've seen the type of torment unleashed on political prisoners. I feel the violence has been channeled, not eliminated or even reduced.
No, it's just been brought to your attention now. You think prisoners were treated with velvet gloves 100 years ago?
Quote:
As far as street fights, today it has become the norm for people to be shot in a drive-by or carjacked.
And before it was the norm to be found by the side of the highway, dead.
Quote:
The victim doesn't even have to be involved, just wrong place, wrong time. And, then, there is my personal fave, road rage. Somebody cut you off? Just shoot them or run them off the road.
And how often does that bloody well happen again? Because if it were half as often as you seem to be describing, I'm surprised I'm not yet dead.
All you've done is demonstrated that yes, these incidents are more televised now. And coverage has nothing to do with the amount of violence present.
Quote:
Again, I feel the violence is still there, but it isn't confined to personal street fights. You don't have to be involved for bullets to make you just as dead.
Number of innocent bystander deaths in my city last year: 0% of total murders commited. Hell, I don't recall the last time a bystander was
killed here.
Aerothorn on 18/3/2007 at 04:42
Only TTLG could turn a thread about 300 into politics.
pavlovscat on 18/3/2007 at 04:59
Quote Posted by Swiss Mercenary
All you've done is demonstrated that yes, these incidents are more televised now. And coverage has nothing to do with the amount of violence present.
Number of innocent bystander deaths in my city last year: 0% of total murders commited. Hell, I don't recall the last time a bystander was
killed here.
My main point was not the amount of media coverage, but that most violent actions from the past have a modern day equivalent. You must live in an idyllic place where these things don't intrude into your life. It would be nice not to have to worry about violent crimes every time you leave the house. Crime was a fact of life living in New Orleans. In most areas in Orleans parish, you didn't travel without a loaded gun in the car. People don't report crimes due to fear of retaliation from the criminals. Try standing in a crowd watching a parade & hit the ground because 2 people (1 an innocent bystander) were killed within 100 feet of where you were standing. How about fearing for your good friend's school child because some idiot decided to shoot up the school? How about a friend beaten to death in a parking lot by her ex-boyfriend who was let out of jail on bail because beating up on your girlfriend isn't that serious?
Living in a violent environment tends to inure one to that violence. Especially, when you don't feel you can do anything about it. Violence can become so common place that you stop reacting to it. People used to be upset when a violent crime occurred. Eventually, you just get numb. You read the news and say in a bored voice, "Hey, Honey, they killed another school kid in a drive by." He responds, "Not again? What a shame. What's for lunch? Not tuna again!"
Environment is a key factor. You & I live in two different realities. You don't live with every day violence, so you can't truly understand what it is like to live in fear to the point where violence becomes expected. You're more amazed that nobody was killed this week than if 10 people were killed. I've lived in places where I didn't leave the house after dark and never alone. You are more fortunate. Thankfully, we are now living in a much safer place, but I still don't stay home alone without the monitored security system armed & ready. Fear is a hard habit to break.
