SneaksieDave on 2/5/2005 at 15:37
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
We really should have a thread that just lists these types of tweaks with % complete and links to the info.
Word.
*...gently nudges Bumbleson toward the rope arrow...*
ZylonBane on 2/5/2005 at 17:12
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
A commone theme is returning the gameplay to the T1 and 2 style/function what with minimising loot glint, adding water and rope arrows etc.
What I find interesting is the notable absence of objection to these changes, all of which aim to reverse what ISA supposedly considered to be improvements.
It's like there's a tacit acknowledgement here that TDS was a giant collection of bad design decisions.
SubJeff on 2/5/2005 at 17:19
Yep, that it is. It's a relief to me, and a testament to how perfect the orginals were. That an FM should feature a superior version of enemy Keepers (Equilibrium) using an engine that is lower tech, is shocking. But then... you know... XBox.
OrbWeaver on 2/5/2005 at 19:35
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
It's like there's a tacit acknowledgement here that TDS was a giant collection of bad design decisions.
That is partly true, but there is also the fact that the sample is biased because people only try to change what they don't like. Design decisions that are considered "good" are unlikely to be mentioned in the editor forum, as there is no interest in modifying them.
Gestalt on 2/5/2005 at 20:28
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
What I find interesting is the notable absence of objection to these changes, all of which aim to reverse what ISA supposedly considered to be improvements.
It's like there's a tacit acknowledgement here that TDS was a giant collection of bad design decisions.
Why would anyone complain that other people are customizing the game to suit their own tastes? Did you seriously expect someone to pipe up at some point and say "no, you shouldn't change that because it's what the ISA devs planned"?
There's no objection to people modifying it to suit their tastes because that would be childish, and ridiculous in a forum that's dedicated to modding the game in various ways.
We know you didn't like the games ISA put out. We get it. You don't need to take every opportunity to reiterate your stance.
Orkin Man on 2/5/2005 at 20:47
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
It's like there's a tacit acknowledgement here that TDS was a giant collection of bad design decisions.
Really, IMO, the only "bad" design decision was simultaneous development for the XBox. Everything else came along to try and fix the problems associated with a game being on a console, smaller level sizes, lower res textures, big fat loot glints, arrow trails..they're all to get around console limitations. If ISA had enough time and budget to make a proper PC version, then port it to XBox (ala D3 and HL2), the Thief purists would have been much happier with DS.
People like ZylonBane complaining all the time doesn't change one simple fact...this is the real world, and in the real world it takes alot of time and money to make a game. Thief III's projected sales didn't justify a larger budget, so ISA had to make do with what they could get, and personally, I think ISA did an excellent job with what they were given...
Bumbleson on 2/5/2005 at 20:48
Quote Posted by SneaksieDave
*...gently nudges Bumbleson toward the rope arrow...*
Uhm...but the Enforcers.... :erm: ouch! :sweat:
;)
SubJeff on 2/5/2005 at 21:58
Normally Zb's bitchy moaning is boring to me too.
But he is quite correct here.
We are attempting to fix this game. Not modify it, not "customizing the game to suit" our "own tastes" or any other pussyfooting you might wish to do.
The customisations have a common goal - removing features that are superfluous to T1+2 gameplay and adding features that are essential to T1+2 gameplay. Lockpicking is superior in T3, but that and the gloves are the only things that we will leave more or less intact (and not even that - people want the lockpicking hud off, and I agree).
New Horizon on 2/5/2005 at 22:08
Finally! :) After a year of working on the Minimalist Project, people are finally coming around. I thought I was on a private crusade for awhile there guys. :joke:
rujuro on 2/5/2005 at 22:51
No, you ARE customizing the game to suit you own tastes, which of course is the same as fixing it from your point of view. It's not "pussyfooting" around to describe it this way.
You will never get everyone to agree which changes are the right ones to make because everyone has their own subjective opinion of what worked and what didn't.
For example, the only design decision I would consider outright BAD was connecting first person movement to third person and not treating them separately.
It's only a fix if you're addressing a bug.
