Vigil on 23/12/2006 at 23:22
I studied philosophy and Roman history, in New Zealand, where I grew up. It wasn't free like it is here in Finland, but it was close enough to it. I quit, because I made myself a job doing graphic design, and I felt that when it came down to it the degree wasn't going to get me anywhere that a coffee-table book couldn't.
I eventually met my future wife, and moved to Finland to be with her. That's right, people actually willingly move to this country, rather than away from it! And as easy as students have it here (believe me, they have it reeeeal easy) it's definitely not the same to come here as a foreigner and settle down, get a job and the rest of it. Along the way I've realised some of the things I had back in NZ that I miss - family, familiar culture, social security, the country itself. I wouldn't change what I did - I made the right choice for me - but it was definitely hasn't been an easy move.
Now, I obviously do believe in following your dreams - otherwise I wouldn't be here! But, there are three things at issue here.
Firstly, the general consensus on these boards is that a game-focused programming degree is a poor path compared to a more general comp sci degree. The games market offers poor job security at the moment - if you're smart enough to be good at it anyway, you're smart enough to teach yourself game-specific skills - and you'll be in a better position to survive on (or jump ship to) a business-programming job if you have a more general degree.
Secondly, is the reputation of comp-sci teaching really that poor in Finland? Do you need to go overseas to get a decent education? Or is it just the Java thing? Now I'm not a top-tier programmer, but I feel that the choice of language really shouldn't be the deciding factor. You will likely end up having to use other languages than C++ as part of job requirements at some point, so for the sake of your career it's better to be flexible about it.
(Ok, you edited your earlier post while I was writing this to explain somewhat, but I think my points still stand.)
Thirdly, moving to another country is a Pretty Big Thing. It is a lot easier as a student than as a worker, especially if you can speak good english and are going to be studying in an english-speaking country. But the cost of tuition and of living somewhere like the UK can eat you alive if you don't have good savings or a good scholarship. Maybe you're not going to be the one paying for it - but someone will.
If you're sick of Finland and want a change of scenery, then you could take a half-year off first and go travelling, perhaps to some of the places you'd like to study. It might give you a different perspective on Finland - perhaps you'll appreciate it more, or maybe the grass really is greener for you somewhere else, like it was for me.
metal dawn on 23/12/2006 at 23:42
Not to butt in too much, I hope, Alun.
I've been a rather distant fan of New Zealand for a while. Never been there myself, though I've been intrigued by7 it ever since I did a school report on it when I was younger.
Almost all aspects of it fascinate me. It's countryside and people as well as the animals (the common and rarer ones), and even it's relatively isolated state make me curious.
This a pathetic question, but I may ask, do these free tuitions affect taxes?
Qooper on 23/12/2006 at 23:46
Quote Posted by Vigil
Firstly, the general consensus on these boards is that a game-focused programming degree is a poor path compared to a more general comp sci degree. The games market offers poor job security at the moment - if you're smart enough to be good at it anyway, you're smart enough to teach yourself game-specific skills - and you'll be in a better position to survive on (or jump ship to) a business-programming job if you have a more general degree.
Yeah, there is that. This is something I've thought a lot about. I still can't find the answer. I really really would like to program and design games, but seldom do they come together in the same package (designing and programming). I'm not much of a business type person, but starting a game company with a friend might be the answer. I don't know. Like I said, I'm in the planning phase and thinking things through.
Quote:
Secondly, is the reputation of comp-sci teaching really that poor in Finland? Do you need to go overseas to get a decent education?
Trust me, the quality of comp-sci teaching in the university of Turku is below mediocre. I'm getting more and more depressed sitting there, watching the teacher not knowing what he's teaching. That and the lack of more specific programming courses, like ones on game programming. This is true about the uni of Turku. I don't know if it's the same for other universities as well. I'm going to have to ask about that.
One of the things that are repelling me is compulsory swedish. I'm terrible in swedish, and don't have the time or motivation to learn it well enough to pass those courses. I'd rather use that time to study math and physics.
Quote:
If you're sick of Finland and want a change of scenery, then you could take a half-year off first and go travelling, perhaps to some of the places you'd like to study. It might give you a different perspective on Finland - perhaps you'll appreciate it more, or maybe the grass really is greener for you somewhere else, like it was for me.
I've thought about that. I'm probably going to go to US to work for the summer. Also, I've asked about exchange programmes. That's one possibility too. Moving to another country isn't easy at all, so I'm going to take small steps at first.
Agent Monkeysee on 24/12/2006 at 00:49
Quote Posted by mopgoblin
Whenever I use Java I find myself wanting to use all the nice stuff c++ has.
In practical real-world programming sure but there's no reason to abandon a school over it. If you're so new to programming you're going to school to learn it you shouldn't already be entrenched in language zealotry.
I dunno. I'm not a huge fan of Java myself but then I'm also not a huge fan of C++. It's a messy, messy language with far too many obscure "features" that get in the way of solving the problem at hand. But in the end a particular language is just another tool and sometimes you use what you have at hand.
Mingan on 24/12/2006 at 02:56
Look, when I was in university, I always dissed C# as being a Java clone. It really is, plus it has some VB nonsense included. But guess what? I have to use it everyday, because my job requires me to. And it's really not that bad. It makes the things I want it to do and it's all that matters.
At any rate, you should not ever limit your skills in a particular language because you dislike it, because it'll get you right up the ass when you'll have to use it. Life is ironic, don't you know the tune?
Aerothorn on 24/12/2006 at 05:02
I live in Washington and am familiar with Digipen.
I am interested in games, but never even considered Digipen for a number of reasons. They're famous for being incredibly stuff - I read a big article on them a few years back. I think they had like a 75% dropout rate and a 10-12 hour workday. Obviously if you graduate you'll have guaranteed employment at Nintendo or a lot of places you want to go - but that doesn't mean you'll start off with a cush job (though you could). Depends on where you work.
That said, they're also incredibly hard to get into - I wouldn't hedge my bets. But if your goal is choice in education, the US is the place to be. HUGE variety of colleges. Though, I'm also told that Finland does what it does quite well - so if you're going to come to the USA, you'll be doing it for a liberal arts college and not a big university. I'm going to Hampshire College, and it's my understanding that there's no comparable institution in Britain or Canada.
Deep Qantas on 24/12/2006 at 22:50
Just get a degree and get out. Best way to learn practical game design and game programming is probably still the old fashioned way.
Now if I could only get myself to follow this advice...
Vigil on 25/12/2006 at 17:05
Quote Posted by metal dawn
Not to butt in too much, I hope, Alun.
Dunbar2 on 3/1/2007 at 01:28
Hey Qooper:
When I was a young Comp Sci undergrad, I thought I wanted to be a game developer. While in school I made contacts with people in the game industry and found out about how the industry really is. I ended up working in the simulation industry out of college which I think was a good move for myself -- better hours and better pay. That first job led to other interesting and challenging jobs and I have never seriously considered becoming a game developer since an undergrad.
With a proper Comp Sci undergrad program, you should be able to explore all the apsects of computer science and get a good foundation that you can build from instead of being focused on one small niche. I myself have been surprised when something that I had glossed over as an undergrad has come in useful years later.
As I understand it, the Finns have great engineering schools (if what a coworker of mine says is correct). What I would suggest to you is to ask yourself what what do you find rewarding about programming? Game programming can be very rewarding but it can lead to quick burn out (as a few of my friends discovered). I would stick with your current school (assuming it is giving you a solid foundation in computer science) and do work on your own doing game stuff (like 3D graphics, AI, physics, ... ) and make contacts both in the game industry and anywhere else that does the sort of stuff you would like to do.
~Dunbar
Mr.Duck on 3/1/2007 at 03:31
"And are you a torpedo? You're missing the boat."
*Claps*
