Starrfall on 28/2/2006 at 06:25
Labyrinths and Ficciones are also two good collections.
I don't know what he said about Plato, but he seemed to be pretty insistent about Socrates being ugly.
demagogue on 28/2/2006 at 07:02
Wyclif's post reminds me of an idea I once had (not entirely seriously) to make a list of the books which, if they were to collect a modern set of holy scripts or a modern "bible", books which defined the limits of humanity's search for truth meaning and morals/values blah blah in the modern era, such a canon would at least include (at least for philosophical / moral / spiritual works) the following. Even though the idea is dumb, I still think the following books are the real deal, worth wading into deeper waters.
-
Heidegger's Being and Time (supplement with
Sartre's Being & Nothingness, and it's a huge 1-2 punch; an insider's look into the core of consciousness, hard to read at first but it makes you want to dig deeper and deeper and learn the language he basically invents to describe it so you can dig ever deeper; you'll never look at your own experience the same way again. The metaphysical backbones to existentialism).
-
Niezsche's Thus Spoke Zarathurstra (he nailed what modernity would mean for values and morality 130 years ago, and most people still can't deal with it today; anyway, it's intoxicating reading, and since it's written as a parable it's pretty fun to read)
-
Kierkegaard's Repetition (or
Fear and Trembling. His style is very disorienting at first, but when you get used to it, it's very moving, you just have to be ready to put in the investment to read it carefully. Real freedom never felt so sweet, or terrifying/burdensome).
-
Wittgenstein's Tractatus (a logical anti-proof of the limits of truth and the beginning of mysticism in under 40 pages; what's not to love? Godel's Incompletness theorem could go here too as it's ideal foil, but as best described by quite possibly the most fun computer science/philosophy book ever; the cyberbible:
Hofstadter's Godel Escher Bach).
- And
Dennett's Consciousness Explained (at least until replaced by a better magnum opus on the scientific meaning of consciousness; throw in
Dennett's Darwin's Dangerous Idea and
the Mind's Eye (a very accessible book for a popular audience which uses short stories and small essays to make its points) to pound the message home: we are glorified machines basically "designed" by blind chance; here's how we can spiritually deal with it.
Dawkin's The Selfish Gene would go here too, although maybe a little dated now. All of these books are very well written, no jargon, and relatively easy to read, chock full of fun thought experiments, colorful examples, diagrams, and a good sense of humor.)
Not all of these are the most light reading (maybe except those I noted), but all vastly reward careful reading, whether you agree or not. I'd consider them essential reading.
As for literary works, I'm not as confident, but here are the works that I found meaningful. (this post has already crashed once; hope it doesn't do it again: )
-
Camus's The Fall (The Stranger is the classic that everyone must read of course, but maybe it's too obvious. The Fall, which you maybe don't know, makes it much more personal, almost the opposite of the Stranger where we never know what the guy's thinking, here we know *everything* he's thinking, a bit like
Hemmingway's Old Man and the Sea (another one for the list for this same reason). In the Fall, the guy "absolves" himself of the guilt of being human by "judging" everone else for it; wonderful! I also got a lot out of Camus's 2 sister-essays
Myth of Sysiphys and
the Rebel, and
the Plague is a classic here, too)
-
Kafka's The Trial (Metamorphasis is the classic, of course, but this is just as sobering because it hits so close to home: our whole society is basically a process that controls our lives without our permission much less participation.)
-
Dostoyevky's Notes from the Underground (so f'ing hardcore, seriously, it makes you want to shout at it; throw in
Brother's Karamazov and
the Idiot and stand back. Nobody does siezure-inducing literature better than the Russians!)
-
Faulkner's Sound and the Fury ("depth" doesn't begin to describe the style here; read too fast and you'll frustrate yourself, but slow down and you feel almost like you're swimming through time).
-
Ellison's Invisible Man (the language here is so playful; I love the imagry, while the theme is so disturbing.)
- The rest are maybe lighter books, fun but powerful:
Heller's Catch-22 (I don't care if it is obvious or dredge; it's a joy to read);
Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions (
Slaughterhouse 5 is the classic of course, but V seemed to have more sheer fun writing this one; I relished reading it);
Grave's I Claudius (also with
Camus's Caligula, getting into the heads of absolutist, hedonistic caesars = absurdist fun at its best); and yes, get a collection of
Borges' short stories (all the different collections are now collected into one fat tome now). The best summary I heard for them was that they were almost like mathmatical proofs distilled into literary form; they have a subversive inevitability about them: you don't want them to be true, but there they stand. Oh, also
Kazantzakis's Zorba the Greek is chock full of life and the joy of living (
Last Temptation of Christ is the heavier side of Kazantzakis if you want it, although almost sad to see it get overshadowed by the pop Divinci Code, even though Divinci Code is also a very fun and thought-provoking book to read).
By the way, when in doubt, I often start with these (
http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100bestnovels.html) 2 lists to find a good next book to tackle (the best 100 novels as voted by modern literature experts and popularly; choosing one list or the other depending on my mood.)
These lists make me want to give honorable mention to:
Ford M. Ford's The Good Soldier (
Fitzgerald's Great Gadsby is almost too obvious, isn't it, but still essential I think); the other Faulkner books; maybe
Nabakov's Lolita (too obvious).
Some not on this list that I wish were:
Hilton's Lost Horizon;
Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front; and
Marquez's 100 Years of Solitude (maybe because the last 2 were translated).
theBlackman on 28/2/2006 at 07:08
Anything by Alexander Woollcott A columnist of the 20's and 30's, as a title While Rome Burns. Think Robert Benchley or Will Rogers for the type of material.
The treatise by William Hickling Prescott on The conquest of Mexico and The conquest of Peru and compare them to The Discovery and conquest of Mexico by Bernal Diaz del Castillo. A comparison of history viewed objectively and the opposite subjective view.
The Prince by Machiavelli.
Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun
The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi or Musashi, Miyamoto if you prefer.
Omega on 28/2/2006 at 10:33
I'd have to say.. anything Orwell.
* 1984* Keep the Aspidistra Flying
Vernon on 28/2/2006 at 12:48
I have to agree with demagogue on 'Notes from Underground,'
“...I've only taken to an extreme that which you haven't even dared to take halfway...” :sweat:
Have you read 'House of The Dead?'
I certainly found Kierkegaard pretty tough going - by no means an 'easy read.' Mind you, it was 'The Sickness Unto Death.'
I'd recommend Douglas R. Hofstadter's 'Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid,' if you dig beautifully abstract ponderings on the nature of human thought processes, but bear in mind it isn't exactly a novel.
Para?noid on 28/2/2006 at 13:18
Quote Posted by theBlackman
The Book of Five Rings by
Miyamoto Musashi or Musashi, Miyamoto if you prefer.
This is highly reccomended reading.
So is <a href="http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/odyssey.html">Homer - "The Odyssey"</a>
Rogue Keeper on 28/2/2006 at 13:31
Quote Posted by Vernon
We all know what Nietszche said about Plato, don't we?
You know what God said about Nietzche, don't you. ;)
...
Anyways, some pieces which affected me during last year:
Piere Bouille: Planet of the Apes & Bridge over River Kwai
Jack London: Master Alcohol
Erich Maria Remarque : All Quiet on Western Front
Arthur C. Clarke : The City and the Stars
Honoré de Balzac : Father Goriot
Dorling Kindersley's Big Encyclopaedia of Space
This thread depresses me. If I won't manage to read at least 85 % of works mentioned by people here in next 10 years, I will consider my life as intellectual failure.
Also, Vernon, since you enjoy Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, you consider Chekhov as "modern"?
Printer's Devil on 28/2/2006 at 13:49
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
Vonnegut : Cat's Cradle
Solzhenitsyn : Cancer Ward
Virgil : Aeneid
Tom Sharpe : Wilt
Hesse : Magister Ludi
Bourdain : Kitchen Confidential
The Aeneid? It is fairly tiresome and was written as cultural propaganda (the noble origins of the Roman people in Troy, justifications for slaughtering the native Etruscans upon arrival in Italy, etc). It might be quite lyrical in the original Latin, but it didn't really imbed itself in the English language the way Homer's
Illiad and
Odyssey managed to.
Paz on 28/2/2006 at 13:55
I once tried to talk about Murakami and (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100453&highlight=murakami) no-one gave a shit! Watch out because I filled that post with spoilers.
Anyway, I still haven't decided if he's a genius or just writes utter, utter wank. HOWEVER, his Wind-Up Bird book made me think about this question for an inordinately long time - which is something I love, love, love!
I'm not ready for another novel by him just yet though.
Also; third/fourthing the Borges thing.
Also also; this is a bit OBVIOUS BOOK LIST but I'm rather liking Eco's
The Name of the Rose in between the bits where he's shaking his academic dick at me.
ilweran on 28/2/2006 at 14:08
Almost anything by J G Ballard, except Crash- I just love the way he writes, it's so vivid, almost like watching a film instead of reading a book. I didn't like Crash as a story, but I still enjoyed reading it because of how it's written.
100 Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez has a similar vividness.
Borges has already been mentioned, but is another author I'd reccommend.
The Ancestors Tale by Richard Dawkins - I've just finished reading this and it's really given me a better idea of evolution
If I was going to pick a few 'Classic' classics, I loved Anna Karenina by Tolstoy, Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte or Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky