Dia on 8/4/2013 at 13:52

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I care dearly for and about the Thief section of these forums; always have and probably always will. But the more I read, see, and hear about T4 (or whatever it's going to be called), the less likely it becomes that I'll waste my money on it. As jtr said, "I need to know I can install and play the thing and not experience all the stuff I can't stand or can't participate in in gaming in this new title. At this point, it's too much like games I don't care for, and too much a title that serves the industry not the needs of the player to be entertained and escape real life." And that's just going on what little info EM has released about the game. I want to love this game, I want to adore it, but most of the news so far I find discouraging. I say 'most' because there's been maybe one or two tidbits of information that I found remotely encouraging. But no, just because I love the Thief forums (and TDP & TMA) doesn't mean I'll automatically go out and buy this game. We need more information.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with your perception, Curunir. I've already had the impression that because of TDS' epic fail, EM is going to strive to reach gamers of all kinds with T4, not just those who like stealth-based games, and that could backfire mightily.

Renzatic on 8/4/2013 at 14:33

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I dunno. Everything they've said points towards this being a stealth game and nothing but a stealth game. It's not a game trying to reach the COD, Borderlands, or competitive multiplayer market. They've done nothing but emphasize ghosting, talk about how difficult it is to go through the game fighting, and gush over the nuances of their new light and dark systems. EM has done nothing but try to sell the game as a stealth game. Not first and foremost with required action bits added to the side. No scenes where you race trucks down a dirt road. It's just stealth.

The question isn't whether they're dumbing down the stealth to appeal to as wide a market as possible. The major question is if it's going to be a good Thief game or not. I'm not too worried about the gameplay. It'll have its issues that come along with modernization, sure. But as long as you don't spend the vast majority of your time trying to divine a hidden agenda from the developers by incessantly reading between the lines of each and every quote that's come out of their mouth. or project too much feeling onto them like some people do here, you'll realize they do a decent grasp on what makes Thief tick, and what the focus of the gameplay should be.

If they say...



...I have no reason to believe they're lying. They could screw it up, sure. But their intention here is obvious. They want to make a game that plays to the same strengths as Thief did.

My biggest concern is presentation. The Hammerites, the Pagans, The City, the music, the sound, all the fiction. Like I've said before, stealth gameplay is only half the equation to making a good Thief game. They could get the first half right and screw up the second quite severely. And if they do, what do you have? A good stealth game that isn't nearly as memorable as the games they're based upon.

Every interview I've read has practically been a handjob to the hardcore stealth community. It's obvious it won't be exactly like old Thief, and there are new gameplay additions that might either make the game world seem like a much more holistic, living thing, or being annoying side games that don't serve any purpose but to waste your time between missions. There are a few features I have issues with, and I'm not sure how good or bad they'll be yet (use of 3rd person, focus, ect.). But the core of the gameplay is there. It's not trying to be anything other than a new, updated Thief.

The world? We barely know anything about it.

Renzatic on 8/4/2013 at 14:46

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Considering we haven't even seen a picture of new Garrett with a sword yet, let alone a little dagger...

Renzatic on 8/4/2013 at 15:53

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I tell you, Tomi. It's not so much having a positive attitude, a negative one, or being completely neutral about the subject that bothers me around here.

It's all the damn navelgazing that gets in my nerves. "Thief isn't a game that sells to the masses". Every time I see the word "masses" I want to haul off and slap someone as hard as I can. If only I could reach through the internet to do so...

It's like to justify their position, you can practically see them ticking from the cognitive dissonance.

It's like, yeah, okay. Thief apparently isn't a game that sells to the masses. Sure. Right. This is despite the fact that THIEF HAS MADE TONS OF MONEY AND THEY'RE MAKING THE FOURTH GAME IN THE SERIES! That's pretty damn good for a game that apparently only appeals to unique snowflakes.

"They're trying to market it for the masses. Not hardcore players like us, who they don't understand". Despite the fact that, over and over again, they've mentioned about how the game is geared more towards quiet sneaking over violent action. How they talked about waiting for 30 seconds to a minute for a guard to turn his head so you could steal a piece of loot without being seen. How the game is incredibly hard to play aggressively. Yup. It really does sound like they're trying to corner the frat house demographic, don't it?

"They're just saying what we want to hear so we'll buy the game". Oh. Sure. Despite the fact you're not...the masses, and your opinion doesn't apparently count? Why the hell are they even wasting their time trying to impress you then, when they could be doing what I said above, and talking about all the cool explosions the engine is capable of rendering, and how the game is a straight up bloodbath action fest to better sell it to...THE MASSES.

Games like Thief sell, people. Difficult games sell. Slow games sell. And it looks like EM is trying their damnest to make a sequel that lives up to the legacy of the previous games.

My concern isn't so much if games like Thief can sell in this day and age. They can. They do. NONE OF YOU ARE UNIQUE, SPECIAL, OR IN POSSESSION OF A PARTICULARLY REFINED SENSE OF TASTE IN THIS REGARD! GET OVER YOURSELVES!

Nope. My concern is if EM is up to the task of truly making a game that lives up to the legacy of Thief. This is still very much an open question. Deus Ex has given me plenty of hope. The interviews have been promising. But this is still an open question.

nickie on 8/4/2013 at 16:06

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Well I don't know if I'm a mass or not but what I think this forum needs, maybe along with the game, is a large injection of humour.