Let's try and rescue our reputation then: Constructiveness ITT

jtr7 on 30/3/2013 at 10:50

There are visual cues that are fine, but the geometry doesn't have to be involved. For example, the pressure-plate traps in the Dark Engine Thiefs. We see the sections of floor that are set about 3 centimeters below the surrounding floor, or maybe notice the texture is not a perfect match, the geometry is different, the puzzle is different, the effect is different and the direction where something might come at Garrett is different. The textures that indicate where a rope arrow might be placed are shown anywhere from a small 3cm patch of several wood/earthy texture, to windowsills, eaves, balconies, beams, walls, tunnels, ceilings, literally anything no matter the shape and size. I don't even know if the grapple is going to be object-specific or if textures will also be an option. I hope I don't see the same four or five railings (or whatever grapple surfaces will be recycled) in both the newest and oldest parts of the new City. Keep it organic but of course provide other means of identifying optional pathways. It shouldn't be measured out. It should be based on the overall puzzle of the gamespace. It should often feel like Garrett's making a less-than-ideal situation work for him, not obvious. Most of all, the player should never feel lulled into not thinking about his/her approach, spotting the path from afar 'cause that pre-fab visual always means one thing.

Vivian on 30/3/2013 at 10:51

Quote Posted by Starker

Like the chest high walls that signal a firefight/ambush in third person shooters? No thanks.

No, not like that. Like the ventwork in Dishonored that means you are likely to find an ingress/egress route. Like the conspicuous wooden beams in Thief that means you can rope-arrow yourself up there and probably traverse an otherwise very difficult space unseen. Like the grabable planks of wood in HL2. Like the white paint in Portal. Things that don't look excessively out of place, but do let you look over an area and see what options you have.

Starker on 30/3/2013 at 10:58

Quote Posted by Vivian

Indeed, at the very least they should not feel out of place, but I feel that the player should have to think a bit about it too. When they look at a ledge, they should think: "This ledge is just high enough to be climbable" instead of "This ledge looks like every climbable ledge in the game" and "This gap looks just wide enough to jump over" instead of "This looks like the sort of gap that you can jump over".

I had a lot of fun in Thief just trying to get to places and often there was not a good indication if you can really mantle up something or jump over a gap.

jtr7 on 30/3/2013 at 11:21

There are places that barely look navigable, and require you to not just walk forward or just hit the jump key, and the fact Garrett starts to fall for a split-second before catching a tiny ledge and stepping back up, all add to a sense of peril. There are many places that require crazy key combos, even when you know all the tricks. There are some really tight spots that require wriggling through, and some of them you can barely see are there, and not just because it's dark. Most of them are not required, but some are if you want to get all the maps' loot. The organic and unique places that are not found elsewhere, or are definitely not copied, but rebuilt with different geometry for a similar effect, and placed in different contexts, all make for a distinctiveness that TDS sorely lacked, and even with all the new power in the devs' hands, have somehow become the norm. Break the norms, dammit!

Brian The Dog on 1/4/2013 at 20:10

- A great story
- The ability to turn all sorts of things on and off, via in-game settings. For instance, the ability to turn off head-bob, invert mouse -y etc, as well as any extra stuff they like to include (e.g. loot glint, tutorials). Dishonored and DE:HR both were good at this.
- Level Editor.
- No Boss Fights (DE:HR admitted they messed this up)

The first 2 points are the most important to me, I don't care what fancy hand-holding stuff they put in the game so long as I can turn it on-and-off in the settings. I would however strongly vote against insisting that the game has a very hard difficulty by default - that would turn-off new players, and expereinced Thief-ers can make the game as difficult as they like by their own house-rules.

SubJeff on 1/4/2013 at 22:24

I wouldn't want a boss "fight" but I'd quite like specific stealth mini missions in order to get past someone or something.

So instead of just sneaking past this thing you'd have to do a few things, set up a few things, time a few things, then go for it.

In the same way you learn the basics in something like Portal and then reach a challenge where you have to use multiple skills/abilities in quick succession to get past.

jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 12:19

(http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141256)

Quote Posted by Skaadi

Hi guys!

So uh, over at the Eidos Thief 4 forums we have a little 'thank you' thing going on for Stephen Russell. Basically you just post a message to him in the thread saying how much you enjoyed his work / what you liked etc and Eidos has agreed to post the responses in digital thank you card that will be sent to Mr Russell.

Thought you guys might be interested, here's the link, it explains it in more detail: (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=136564)

Please note though its not a place to debate anything relating to the new VA etc, we really just want messages of appreciation :)

Thanks guys

Dia on 6/4/2013 at 14:21

Quote Posted by thiefessa

They're still listening now.

Perhaps, but they're obviously not paying attention. Ever get the feeling you were nothing but background noise to someone?

Back on-topic: it's rather difficult to list all the things I'd want in a new Thief game in just a couple of bullet-points. Besides, we've already had several threads directed at EM wherein that same question was asked of us over the last several years, haven't we? Do you really think they'll take the time and trouble at this late date? Oh well, here goes:

-Ease up on the cutscenes; no long, drawn-out cutscenes that serve only to illustrate how clever/talented EM's team of animators are.
-I want to do my own takedowns; no slo-mo takedown scenes, please.
-A real stealth-based game like TDP and TMA; no parkour-style action - Garrett's a thief, not an Olympics wannabe. I want the option and ability to ghost.
-Developers who REALLY 'get' what the Thief games were all about because they've actually played them, so, basically I guess I want everything that made TDP and TMA magic, compelling, immersive, and immensely satisfying to play.

Apologies in advance if I broke the rules of this thread.

Tomi on 6/4/2013 at 15:09

Quote Posted by Dia

Apologies in advance if I broke the rules of this thread.

I don't think you did, and you've got a few good points in there.
I agree with you in general, however:

Quote:

-A real stealth-based game like TDP and TMA; no parkour-style action - Garrett's a thief, not an Olympics wannabe. I want the option and ability to ghost.

Why do you find stealth and parkour mutually exclusive? Garrett has always been able to pull off some pretty agile moves, perhaps this time they'll just look a bit more "cool", but the acrobatics is nothing new in the series. Of course the emphasis of the game should still be on stealth, but the parkour moves aren't taking anything away from it, in fact I think they might even open up more opportunities for the player. :) (but yes, all this obviously depends on what kind of parkour we're talking about here - I don't want to see any super-ninja-fancy-pancy moves either! :p)

Quote:

-Ease up on the cutscenes; no long, drawn-out cutscenes that serve only to illustrate how clever/talented EM's team of animators are.

If you mean long cutscenes during a mission, then yes, I suppose I agree with that. I don't mind watching long cinematics in between the missions at all though, I loved those in the old Thief games and felt that there could have been more of those. I know I wouldn't have got bored of watching them! :D I'm fairly sure that they won't be using the simplistic trademark Thief-style cinematics this time around though, they'll be using all those 3D models and fancy animations instead, but that's alright with me since the game does look pretty damn good!

I'm afraid that you may end up being disappointed with that last point of yours though... "Everything that made TDP and TMA magic" (even those two games - despite of using the same engine - were already quite different; some people who loved TDP didn't like TMA that much and the other way around) is quite a lot to ask, especially when these games are both from more than a decade ago and everything in gaming has changed since that. I wonder if the same magic even can be captured and adapted to today's gaming, because some of our expectations are much higher now. Just updating the graphics to meet the modern standards for example changes the whole feel of the game quite dramatically.

Esme on 6/4/2013 at 21:08

And my apologies as I know this is a negative

I don't want to be forced to ever have an out of body experience where I suddenly find I can see the back of my own head.

I've seen that forced third person perspective is 'minimal' and reserved for the more acrobatic climbing sections, however as a rock climber (OK not a very good one) suddenly finding I'm having an out of body experience when attempting something tricky is pretty much a recipe for falling off

The only reason for it is to show off some 'kewl' aimations during a sequence that has absolutely no chance of failing and to distract you from the lack of risk by replacing it with a show of ersatz skill

So I want to immerse in the character and keep my perspective within 'my' head please.

And I'm aware that this request has zero chance of being accepted