Thirith on 2/12/2010 at 10:21
That sounds reasonable, especially since I'd expect that the PHP stuff would be handled by Wordpress, Buddypress and any other plug-ins we can get, whereas the sort of work that I might be expected to do has more to do with content, formatting and the like. Unless applying Wordpress plug-ins tend to require in-depth understanding of PHP.
In any case, going the whole hog is probably not realistic for the moment - I have more than enough work on my plate with day-to-day operations, and while I can reduce some there, I expect it wouldn't be feasible for me to go and learn four languages at once... not least because my job may vanish in a puff of smoke come April anyway. Whereas getting an understanding of HTML and CSS that goes beyond the simple basics may come in handy in a number of jobs where they're looking for generalists with IT skills.
Thanks again for all the info and recommendations!
Kolya on 2/12/2010 at 16:41
Subjective Effect: Yeah you can do database interaction with JS of course, I was just explaining the main uses.
And you cannot open stuff in a new tab on my site because all the internal links are javascripted which allows the nice pop-into-page effect among other things. You can still link to single items via the "permalink" feature. The site is based on (
http://www.tiddlywiki.com/) TiddlyWiki, you'll have to dig out the animation there.
Thirith: As I said, look at CSS first. You don't need PHP to install plugins. You'll find the relevant CSS file in wp-content\themes\[your theme]\style.css
ZylonBane on 2/12/2010 at 17:06
Quote Posted by Kolya
And you cannot open stuff in a new tab on my site because all the internal links are javascripted which allows the nice pop-into-page effect among other things.
I hate, hate, hate sites that insist on doing "view full-size" fake popups as a layer inside the same window. Great, so now I don't have the option to have the image and the page open at the same time anymore.
I don't think SBF does this though.
Kolya on 2/12/2010 at 18:37
It's just my personal site ZB, and it doesn't even have that lightbox effect you're talking about.
You see, the items have to open in the same page, because there is no other page. The whole site is stored in that one HTML file and individual items are displayed via JS.
Anyway, none of that applies to SBF and never will. But on my personal site I like to try new tech. Guess that's okay with you too. :)
ZylonBane on 2/12/2010 at 18:59
Hence the last line of my post.
inselaffe on 3/12/2010 at 01:59
Learning css3 (and html 5 - though i can't see as much in here that will be of benefit?) rather than earlier versions will help keep your skills valid in the future. The stuff you will likely be using is already generally supported (or at least rapidly becoming so) and the updated languages seem a cleaner way of doing things. I won't begin to pretend i know a lot though.
The older versions can be a huge mess though - with no proper way to vertically centre, having to hack it and other things. The newer ones if i remember are at least a bit cleaner.
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I hate, hate, hate sites that insist on doing "view full-size" fake popups as a layer inside the same window. Great, so now I don't have the option to have the image and the page open at the same time anymore.
These forums do it though :/ you can turn javascript off though, but it's not the point.
Also, making full applications and fancy things in javascript appears to be hell on earth. I don't get how people can do it - the whole idea looks a complete mess. Granted i've never really learnt javascript, but the whole thing with html, js and all of that is that it "works" when the code is broken so quite how you are meant to debug i do not know. I know that flash is bad, but so is javascript. The performance is awful.
------tangent------
Flash is a broken mess. Coding wise it is trying to become quite nice but i cannot but help feel horrors lie underneath. Performance is awful, and simple things are very buggy. Even flash video is very slow. Flex 4 is very nice for creating interfaces though - but it's still flash so has all the other problems.
That said javafx is looking quite nice and java performance is (
http://www.jagex.com/) good. The javafx part helps because it will mean making nice interfaces is a lot easier. Now of course, i would not necessarily recommend making a site in it the same way i would not recommend flash (flex) or whatever.
I haven't actually tried making anything in it yet but from looking at the kind of code there is it seems to add a nice structure for animations and interfaces onto java.
The problem is people have silly stigmas about java, with lots of unfounded myths. If when javafx 2.0 comes out it could really be quite nice - like a "flash but without being shit". Time will tell. I wonder when they will release the authoring tool.
addink on 3/12/2010 at 02:16
You do realize you come across as a stuck up java programmer..?
'Stuck up java programmer' isn't that a pleonasm? :p
Don't get me wrong, java is a nice language but a lot of (dedicated) java programmers think their code is brilliant while usually it is pretty mediocre.
inselaffe on 3/12/2010 at 02:58
I don't favour any language. I have used both java and actionscript (though not yet javafx, just had a quick look) and if anything i am more familiar with actionscript libraries.
I am just giving an honest opinion from my use of flash. While it does nice things, it's a bit hard to always trust it to do what you expect. The way you can make interfaces with flex 4 is really nice though.
I know it doesn't come across well but i didn't want to write even more than i have done. Also basically no one is using javafx, so i dont even know if many people have tried it.
I'm not saying it will be good.
Also, i am by no means saying java is a brilliant language either. There is a load of crap that makes java very annoying to do interfaces and things. The thing about javafx is it helps with this problem.
I just don't know of languages that are cross platform and mobile that have libraries for stuff like java does.
I should try to learn python or something though, as that seems to allow you to write things in a shorter way - but in terms of client web code, it doesn't really apply.
Javascript just seems messy - looking at the source of lots of websites. And i don't really get the development process. I fully admit i don't really know a great deal about it and i would be happy to be proved wrong. That said, performance seems quite bad anyway - and i am not being biased in any way.
I do not care to have a bias for any language. I would just like something that allows things to be done neatly and quickly, in a nice way, that actually runs decently.
I didn't even suggest that java was the best, just that javafx is something to look at.
In fact, flex 4 has a very nice style for coding guis. The mobile edition (slider) that is coming out is also very nice in how it copes with different devices.
Java itself has a lot of verboseness that is very annoying.
I do not even program a lot at all to be honest, i was just pointing out some observations from when i was working on actionscript and trying to work out what a good platform for mobile gui development would be.
I didn't want to write all this, but a fanboy i am not, and i am open to anything that makes development less shitty :)
SubJeff on 3/12/2010 at 19:53
It really depends what you are using JavaScript for though, doesn't it? This is true of all languages.
I think approaching web development at them moment is really daunting because of all the possible approaches, languages and tech. We've only really talked about free stuff here and haven't even touched on ASP and .net (which I thankfully know little about anymore).
Thing is I don't see it getting any easier. I thought that there would be some solid standardisation at some point, the type that doesn't change much because it doesn't need to. Here's hoping.
inselaffe on 3/12/2010 at 20:17
You're right, javascript is fine for small little things - which is what it was designed for really.
Yes exactly, one can hope. I can't see it though, cos different parties have an agenda to push a certain technology. It is a big mess of confusion though.
